The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

Like I said earlier, being able to apply creativity to solve a local problem without EU hindrance is already an advantage.

I don't think the Remain campaign's economic arguments connected with voters, who realize they are not going to see any of it anyway. Whereas control over solutions to localized problems without EU intervention rang a bell for them. This affords the country some agility and dynamics.

Oh, but you're not interested in that, while they are dumb xenophobes, right?

[k_and_e]

	Quote:
	Actually this is yet another piece of anti-EU propaganda that always gets me. For comparison...: EU total number of employees - 33,900 UK Civil service (so without outsourced functions, QUANGOs etc.) 440,000

[marton]

	Quote:	MusicChick
	You mean - hurray for less bureaucracy? Because the EU is apparently such a bureaucratic moloch. I can see the positives and flexibility of small contracts, but do not think those agreements are going to be less bureaucratic, cheaper, faster or more advantageous for the UK.

" positives and flexibility of small contracts .......less bureaucratic for the UK."
I doubt there will be much difference in the size of the documents between UK negotiated trade agreements and EU trade agreements!
There are a certain number of standard topics to be agreed, defined and written into every agreement regardless of the countries involved.

"more advantageous for the UK"
The benefit of a major group like EU making trade agreements is they are big enough to insist on one standard production standard and have been very successful at this.
The other countries probably are also expecting to get new trade agreements that are more advantageous.

The risk for the UK is that a UK manufacturer will have to set up a separate production line for each country to comply with their standards.

"faster for the UK"
Hopefully, depends on what sort of approval process is involved and who is represented.
If the UK sets up committees with representatives from industry, unions, NGOs etc. then it will take forever

[k_and_e]

	Quote:	marton
	The risk for the UK is that a UK manufacturer will have to set up a separate production line for each country to comply with their standards.

of course. A UK manufacturer would immediately give up producing according to EU standards to maximize production cost

[Faltrad]

	Quote:	k_and_e
	of course. A UK manufacturer would immediately give up producing according to EU standards to maximize production cost

Genuine question: Does that mean that UK manufacturers will have to follow EU regulations in order to sell and have no say and no part in the process of defining those regulations?
If so, the UK will have to introduce the EU regulations into UK regulations, so that the gain to leave the EU must be somewhere else. Hence my question.

Note that I totally respect the leave vote and wish the UK good luck.

[Capo]

	Quote:
	Actually this is yet another piece of anti-EU propaganda that always gets me. For comparison...: EU total number of employees - 33,900 UK Civil service (so without outsourced functions, QUANGOs etc.) 440,000

The 440K UK civil service employees are at least supposedly WORKING on something USEFUL FOR THE BRITISH people...Tell me what is the usefulness and the real need of those 34k EU employess...

[k_and_e]

	Quote:	Faltrad
	Genuine question: Does that mean that UK manufacturers will have to follow EU regulations in order to sell and have no say and no part in the process of defining those regulations? If so, the UK will have to introduce the EU regulations into UK regulations, so that the gain to leave the EU must be somewhere else. Hence my question.

Yes, for the EU market you need to comply to EU standards, for the US to US standards, for the Chinese to Chinese standards etc.

[Faltrad]

	Quote:	k_and_e
	Yes, for the EU market you need to comply to EU standards, for the US to US standards, for the Chinese to Chinese standards etc.

Ok, so this is not the reason why voting leave was a good thing. There must be other ones, I am sure.

[marton]

	Quote:	Faltrad
	Genuine question: Does that mean that UK manufacturers will have to follow EU regulations in order to sell and have no say and no part in the process of defining those regulations? If so, the UK will have to introduce the EU regulations into UK regulations, so that the gain to leave the EU must be somewhere else. Hence my question. Note that I totally respect the leave vote and wish the UK good luck.

UK manufacturers will certainly have to follow EU regulations in their production to sell to EU countries and, of course, they will have no influence in the definition process for new and changed EU regulations.

For other countries it will depend on the details agreed in their individual trade agreements; for example, they could require goods to be built to EU standards or to US standards or some local variation.

[marton]

	Quote:	k_and_e
	of course. A UK manufacturer would immediately give up producing according to EU standards to maximize production cost

No, for countries requiring goods built to EU standards the UK production should not change; for other countries it depends on what will be defined in their trade agreement.

[Uncle Max]

	Quote:	Phos
	Like I said earlier, being able to apply creativity to solve a local problem without EU hindrance is already an advantage. I don't think the Remain campaign's economic arguments connected with voters, who realize they are not going to see any of it anyway. Whereas control over solutions to localized problems without EU intervention rang a bell for them. This affords the country some agility and dynamics. Oh, but you're not interested in that, while they are dumb xenophobes, right?

Lol. As if society's problems are going to be resolved by dynamic, agile local government, suddenly flush with €350m a week. Overnight. By really friendly, generous Theresa May. Sometimes I feel your rhetoric is just an exercise, not a voice of compassion for the weakest members of British society. But so what? Who cares?

	Quote:	Faltrad
	Ok, so this is not the reason why voting leave was a good thing. There must be other ones, I am sure.

Please keep asking as I'm not hearing any answers 'cept shouty "DEAL WITH IT".

	Quote:	Capo
	The 440K UK civil service employees are at least supposedly WORKING on something USEFUL FOR THE BRITISH people...Tell me what useful and what's the real need of those 34k EU employess...

You mean apart from the trade agreements, regional development, agriculture, environmental protection, employment protection, human rights, transport and ensuring the running of the single market?

Simple example - what was the state of UK beaches and bathing water before the EU forced the UK to clean up?

Your turn. Don't forget you'll need 13 significant benefits for every 1 EU I can come up with given the disparity in numbers

[marton]

	Quote:	Faltrad
	Ok, so this is not the reason why voting leave was a good thing. There must be other ones, I am sure.

Strange
It turned out that the reasons given by the Leave campaign were all lies; hopefully we will find out sooner or later why voting leave was a good thing - preferably sooner.

There was a pretty solid vote for leave in the North of England which people claim was a protest vote. As I posted earlier a survey of customer confidence shows it has fallen by 19% for the people who voted for leave in the North of England so they now realise how they stuffed themselves

BTW, the majority of UK property funds have now blocked people from taking their money out; so those investors can happily watch their fund value dropping with no possible exit!

edit, from the ft "Blame Boris. He left the detailed plans for how to manage Brexit on the bus."

[k_and_e]

	Quote:
	Don't forget you'll need 13 significant benefits for every 1 EU I can come up with given the disparity in numbers

You really don't get it, do you?

The EU is a federal top level on top of a country's structure, which is generally small. About 30k people on 500 million EU residents is indeed not so much.

the 440k in the UK (or take any country to compare) covers all governmental and public levels. If the EU would take over all tasks executed by these national public institutions, there would be many more than 30k employees as there simply is more work to do.

[marton]

	Quote:
	You mean apart from the trade agreements, regional development, agriculture, environmental protection, employment protection, human rights, transport and ensuring the running of the single market? Simple example - what was the state of UK beaches and bathing water before the EU forced the UK to clean up? Your turn. Don't forget you'll need 13 significant benefits for every 1 EU I can come up with given the disparity in numbers

Do not forget the massive grants to farmers, UK film & TV industry, Cornwall, Ebbw Vale, Science research and innovation, &&&
I am sure the UK Govt. will replace those grants (pause while I remove my irony head)!

[marton]

	Quote:	Phos
	I don't believe the electorate voted for Brexit according to lies they believe. Who in their right mind would believe Farage about $350M for NHS when that is not even in Farage's remit? On contrary, what shocked everyone is that people actually voted according to what they believe despite ALL the lies being told them by both sides. I was actually impressed and admired the electorate for their level of discernment. I saw it in the Q&A debates. People's minds were engaged and questioning what was being told to them.

"Who in their right mind would believe Farage about $350M for NHS" Of course, nobody.
But let us not forget Boris who was photographed giving a speech in front of a poster making this claim.
Or Ms Patel, who is an employment minister, telling the BBC that the cash injection for the NHS was a firm commitment.

	Quote:	Uncle Max
	Lol. As if society's problems are going to be resolved by dynamic, agile local government, suddenly flush with €350m a week. Overnight. By really friendly, generous Theresa May. Sometimes I feel your rhetoric is just an exercise, not a voice of compassion for the weakest members of British society. But so what? Who cares?

The gloom and doom is the futile exercise in rhetoric. I get it that some will stay with that perspective indefinitely. But not all. Others will sieze the opportunity to advance. So yes, you may see a disparity between those who get to work, and those who don't want to.

[MusicChick]

	Quote:	marton
	" positives and flexibility of small contracts .......less bureaucratic for the UK." I doubt there will be much difference in the size of the documents between UK negotiated trade agreements and EU trade agreements! There are a certain number of standard topics to be agreed, defined and written into every agreement regardless of the countries involved. "more advantageous for the UK" The benefit of a major group like EU making trade agreements is they are big enough to insist on one standard production standard and have been very successful at this. The other countries probably are also expecting to get new trade agreements that are more advantageous. The risk for the UK is that a UK manufacturer will have to set up a separate production line for each country to comply with their standards. "faster for the UK" Hopefully, depends on what sort of approval process is involved and who is represented. If the UK sets up committees with representatives from industry, unions, NGOs etc. then it will take forever

Indeed!

I think the fact somebody else will put their signatures under similar documents that people had with EU was the reason for the entire break up event. People went for it, even if it means signing worse contracts ensurring not as much profit and generally lousier conditions. Scepticism and being realistic is unappealing, though, it is constantly misinterpreted as undemocratic and totalitarian. Wooooshhh. I will now go have some very European, globalising Ikea meatballs for miniscule price. No time for cooking, since I am singing at Royal Albert Hall to rise cash for the UK's National Autistic Society, they seem to be strapped for cash.

[marton]

	Quote:	Phos
	The gloom and doom is the futile exercise in rhetoric. I get it that some will stay with that perspective indefinitely. But not all. Others will sieze the opportunity to advance. So yes, you may see a disparity between those who get to work, and those who don't want to.

From Nasdaq

IMF view of the impact of the Brexit fallout in the Eurozone

Sees GDP decelerating to 1.4% from 1.6% this year
Further slowdown in global growth could derail Eurozone's domestic-led recovery
Downside risks include further Brexit spillover
Medium-term growth prospects 'mediocre' with annual growth in 5 years at 1.5%
Brexit impact on Eurozone will be worse if risk aversion continues for long period


Read more: http://www.nasdaq.com/article/imf-do...#ixzz4DpnnJKHv

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	marton
	From Nasdaq IMF view of the impact of the Brexit fallout in the Eurozone Sees GDP decelerating to 1.4% from 1.6% this year Further slowdown in global growth could derail Eurozone's domestic-led recovery Downside risks include further Brexit spillover Medium-term growth prospects 'mediocre' with annual growth in 5 years at 1.5% Brexit impact on Eurozone will be worse if risk aversion continues for long period Read more: http://www.nasdaq.com/article/imf-do...#ixzz4DpnnJKHv

So the world is wetting itself for -0.2%, thats so funny & a total joke TBH.

If with a 10% drop in currency you can't sell an additional 1% you must be very incompetent. Loads of money to be made here