The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

	Quote:	Urs Max
	IF UK leaves EEA it will be much less attractive to set up shop in the UK, but if instead UK stays in EEA it must accept all four freedoms including free movement of people - you see the dilemma.

The EU is being fundamentalist about Chapter 2 (Freedom of Movement for Workers) of their charter, as it perfectly fits into Germany's need for population growth. Also, Chapter 2 stipulates the free movement of "workers", not anyone and everyone. This can certainly be caveated as needed, if there is a political will to do so.

The UK has finite space and is feeling the effects of uncontrolled migration. Germany still has lots of room to fill. And if Germany should run short, they have in the past come across the concept of Lebensraum. It does not look like the rest of Europe shares Germany's perspective on FMOP fundamentalism.

It may seem inconceivable today, but check back in 5 years if the interpretation of Chapter 2 stays the same.

I'm sure I saw somewhere that the call for a new referendum had been rejected. Wasn't it on the petition site that the way a new referendum was being asked for wasn't valid.

Also this talk of a two year time limit is kind of interesting. In the majority of walks of life time limits are not adhered to and mostly broken.

At the end of the day it all comes down to how well both sides do in the negotitations.

May is being painted as the ideal person to do it in the media at the moment, whether that plays out or not only time will tell. But what she's saying makes sense and the pressure from Europe is being mostly ignored. She seems to be playing it her way at the moment.

If she'll win and get what the majority in the referendum want (if that can be even accurately at detail level stated) is another question.

[Phil_MCR]

	Quote:	Urs Max
	Why settle for a 65mln market when you have a 500mln market available instead?

Not sure whether you don't realise that it isn't an either or decision, or whether you just went ahead and made a stupid argument regardless.

[Wollishofener]

	Quote:	Phos
	The EU is being fundamentalist about Chapter 2 (Freedom of Movement for Workers) of their charter, as it perfectly fits into Germany's need for population growth. Also, Chapter 2 stipulates the free movement of "workers", not anyone and everyone. This can certainly be caveated as needed, if there is a political will to do so. The UK has finite space and is feeling the effects of uncontrolled migration. Germany still has lots of room to fill. And if Germany should run short, they have in the past come across the concept of Lebensraum. It does not look like the rest of Europe shares Germany's perspective on FMOP fundamentalism. It may seem inconceivable today, but check back in 5 years if the interpretation of Chapter 2 stays the same.

the UK should re-join EFTA

[marton]

	Quote:	Zurichowl
	I'm sure I saw somewhere that the call for a new referendum had been rejected. Wasn't it on the petition site that the way a new referendum was being asked for wasn't valid. Also this talk of a two year time limit is kind of interesting. In the majority of walks of life time limits are not adhered to and mostly broken. At the end of the day it all comes down to how well both sides do in the negotitations. May is being painted as the ideal person to do it in the media at the moment, whether that plays out or not only time will tell. But what she's saying makes sense and the pressure from Europe is being mostly ignored. She seems to be playing it her way at the moment. If she'll win and get what the majority in the referendum want (if that can be even accurately at detail level stated) is another question.

"I'm sure I saw somewhere that the call for a new referendum had been rejected." That was the first Govt. statement. Now they are allowing a debate; backtracking in action

[Mikers]

	Quote:	Mikers
	Slightly off topic but more of Jeremy corbyns Kinder Gentler Kind Of Politics today when Angela eagle had her office windows smashed in for daring to launch a leadership challenge against him.

Labours NEC has suspended all local party meetings because of intimidation and bullying. A number of female labour mp's have had intimidating messages and have contacted police. It's all in the main article on the labour contest in today's telegraph. Loving this Gentler Kinder Politics man, i dread to think what dirty politics is to him!

[Medea Fleecestealer]

	Quote:	Zurichowl
	I'm sure I saw somewhere that the call for a new referendum had been rejected. Wasn't it on the petition site that the way a new referendum was being asked for wasn't valid. Also this talk of a two year time limit is kind of interesting. In the majority of walks of life time limits are not adhered to and mostly broken. At the end of the day it all comes down to how well both sides do in the negotitations. May is being painted as the ideal person to do it in the media at the moment, whether that plays out or not only time will tell. But what she's saying makes sense and the pressure from Europe is being mostly ignored. She seems to be playing it her way at the moment. If she'll win and get what the majority in the referendum want (if that can be even accurately at detail level stated) is another question.

The referendum petition was effectively asking for the rules of the referendum to be altered and made retroactive, which isn't possible. So yes, it's been rejected. It will still be debated on the 5th September by Parliament though as it reached the 100,000 signatures needed. That's part of the rules for these e-petitions.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36777494

	Quote:	Wollishofener
	the UK should re-join EFTA

Nope, because then you're back with the problem of having to accept the free movement agreement. Better to maybe use it as a basis to negotiate individual bilateral agreements as Switzerland has with the EU. But then we know the EU will be stubborn about letting parts of the agreements be renegotiated, especially free movement. Best then to start with a completely clean slate and work from there. Decide what we want out of Europe and then they can decide whether they want to agree or not.

[amogles]

	Quote:	Mikers
	Labours NEC has suspended all local party meetings because of intimidation and bullying. A number of female labour mp's have had intimidating messages and have contacted police. It's all in the main article on the labour contest in today's telegraph. Loving this Gentler Kinder Politics man, i dread to think what dirty politics is to him!

I don't believe that he had any personal hand in the intimidation or brick throwing, or that he secretly sanctions it.

But what it does sho is how unhinged part of his supporter base has become.

[JagWaugh]

	Quote:	amogles
	I don't believe that he had any personal hand in the intimidation or brick throwing, or that he secretly sanctions it. But what it does sho is how unhinged part of his supporter base has become.

I admit I am a bit surprised at how readily his opposition is prepared to make him personally responsible for these acts. (Yes, I understand that they are trying to prove that he isn't in control, but there are other ways to do that than to subvert due course.)

[Medea Fleecestealer]

	Quote:	Mikers
	Labours NEC has suspended all local party meetings because of intimidation and bullying. A number of female labour mp's have had intimidating messages and have contacted police. It's all in the main article on the labour contest in today's telegraph. Loving this Gentler Kinder Politics man, i dread to think what dirty politics is to him!

Really? Yet it makes neither their online version nor the BBC's news website. I can find only one reference to this on the inews website.

Still, doesn't surprise me. The unions see Corbyn as their messiah and won't stand for anyone trying to oust him. Labour Party will split in two soon whoever wins. The current batch of Labour MPs can't stay if he wins so off they'll go and form their own little group, and the unions et al won't rally behind Eagle/Smith if they win so off they'll go and form their own little group.

[Mikers]

	Quote:	Medea Fleecestealer
	Really? Yet it makes neither their online version nor the BBC's news website. I can find only one reference to this on the inews website. Still, doesn't surprise me. The unions see Corbyn as their messiah and won't stand for anyone trying to oust him. Labour Party will split in two soon whoever wins. The current batch of Labour MPs can't stay if he wins so off they'll go and form their own little group, and the unions et al won't rally behind Eagle/Smith if they win so off they'll go and form their own little group.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...n-unions-vote/

[Medea Fleecestealer]

	Quote:	Mikers
	http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...n-unions-vote/

Sorry, can't read it behind the paywall.

[amogles]

	Quote:	Medea Fleecestealer
	Sorry, can't read it behind the paywall.

Strange

It wasn't behind a paywall for me. And I definitely don't have a subscription.

[Medea Fleecestealer]

	Quote:	amogles
	Strange It wasn't behind a paywall for me. And I definitely don't have a subscription.

Well, this is what I see. Maybe it was available free early on and isn't now?

	Quote:	Medea Fleecestealer
	Well, this is what I see. Maybe it was available free early on and isn't now?

Works for me as of a few seconds ago and I sure as hell don't have a Torygraph subscription.

[amogles]

	Quote:
	Works for me as of a few seconds ago and I sure as hell don't have a Torygraph subscription.

It could be that non regesitered users are limited to three articles per day or something like that?

[Medea Fleecestealer]

Now that's interesting. Using my default IE10 browser I get the paywall, but if I past the link into Firefox it's fine.

[Urs Max]

	Quote:	Phil_MCR
	Not sure whether you don't realise that it isn't an either or decision, or whether you just went ahead and made a stupid argument regardless.

Could there be a reason why I mentioned what I did? How many companies have multiple European headquarters, how many banks would issue the same fund from London as well as, say, Luxembourg?

A service provider is in quite a different position than a company that's based on physical goods. Most of the growth in the last 20-30 years came from the former, it's part of the reason why London is doing fine, unlike the rest of the country.

	Quote:	Wollishofener
	the UK should re-join EFTA

As an interim for stability, EFTA meets the referendum to Brexit. But EFTA is also premised on Free Movement. While Free Movement was heavily discussed with the referendum, it isn't a requirement to meet the referendum. Free Movement will have to be discussed as a separate issue from Brexiting in the fullness of time.

What EFTA with Brexit would bring is to disconnect the UK from ECJ jurisdiction, which is really at the root of Eurosceptism in the UK. This needs to happen ASAP, before they start getting weird ideas in Strassbourg.

	Quote:	marton
	"I'm sure I saw somewhere that the call for a new referendum had been rejected." That was the first Govt. statement. Now they are allowing a debate; backtracking in action

I suspect they will use the debate merely as a training session on the topic of British Democracy, which a LOT of people seem to need. But no 2nd referendum.

[yacek]

	Quote:	Medea Fleecestealer
	Now that's interesting. Using my default IE10 browser I get the paywall, but if I past the link into Firefox it's fine.

Maybe you've used up your free allotment (your browser keeps cookies from a newspaper website) in one browser that you're using more frequently, while the other browser appears as a different "user" to the website.