The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[Sbrinz]

The idea that somehow the Schengen agreement (on easier border crossings) had an influence on the Belgium and Paris attacks is ridiculous. All the attackers were home grown citizens. Some got away from Paris, and some from Brussels airport, remember they are EU citizens not migrants, but it still took the police days to arrest them. The London 7/7 bombers were also all home grown citizens, mainly from Luton. All the European attackers were disgruntled citizens in their home countries. I think this Schengen idea is a red herring, put about by desperate politicians.

Getting back on track. How do the supporters of the BREXIT movement intend to win contracts abroad in the face of the EU, USA, and China? Britain didn't do very well between 1946 and 1976, despite amazing inventions, so what has changed since then, to enable Britain to survive without the EU?

[AbFab]

	Quote:	Sbrinz
	The idea that somehow the Schengen agreement (on easier border crossings) had an influence on the Belgium and Paris attacks is ridiculous. All the attackers were home grown citizens. Some got away from Paris, and some from Brussels airport, remember they are EU citizens not migrants, but it still took the police days to arrest them. The London 7/7 bombers were also all home grown citizens, mainly from Luton. All the European attackers were disgruntled citizens in their home countries. I think this Schengen idea is a red herring, put about by desperate politicians. Getting back on track. How do the supporters of the BREXIT movement intend to win contracts abroad in the face of the EU, USA, and China? Britain didn't do very well between 1946 and 1976, despite amazing inventions, so what has changed since then, to enable Britain to survive without the EU?

Britain did even worse after 1976! Most of recent "British success" has been thanks to foreign companies whose profits are exported. Just check the value of the £ as a guide...

[Britething]

	Quote:	Sbrinz
	The idea that somehow the Schengen agreement (on easier border crossings) had an influence on the Belgium and Paris attacks is ridiculous. All the attackers were home grown citizens. Some got away from Paris, and some from Brussels airport, remember they are EU citizens not migrants, but it still took the police days to arrest them.

I beg to differ. The ease with which - as we have seen - these young French and Belgian men crossed backwards and forwards over Europe (Greece, France, Germany, etc) even hiding in those countries (and sometimes returning to France via the UK) means that many people are going to be looking at border control as a big issue.
The unsustainable pressure from the people held for now in Calais is also going to be a factor, imo.

[marton]

	Quote:	Britething
	I beg to differ. The ease with which - as we have seen - these young French and Belgian men crossed backwards and forwards over Europe (Greece, France, Germany, etc) even hiding in those countries (and sometimes returning to France via the UK) means that many people are going to be looking at border control as a big issue. The unsustainable pressure from the people held for now in Calais is also going to be a factor, imo.

"sometimes returning to France via the UK" do you have a source for this?

[Britething]

	Quote:	marton
	"sometimes returning to France via the UK" do you have a source for this?

Thanks to Blueangel, yes :

'Inside Europe's Terrorist Attacks', shown on the BBC
also available on YouTube.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	Sbrinz
	The London 7/7 bombers were also all home grown citizens, mainly from Luton. All the European attackers were disgruntled citizens in their home countries.

They were from Leeds. Nobody would freely admit to being from Luton.

Edit:

	Quote:	Sbrinz
	I think this Schengen idea is a red herring, put about by desperate politicians.

Not so sure. I've known people pay a small fortune to not have a particular country as their point of entry into the Schengen zone and queried this because they were booking outside of their employer's travel policy. With more than one, it turned out they have previously been in trouble in the country of entry and preferred to fly into a neighbouring country the travel overland. With others it was because some countries are faster at processing Schengen visas.

[marton]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	This is the British side of the border at Killeen (Speed limit sign), I don't see any controls there....

LOL
Ireland is also not in Schengen so maybe the British rely on Irish external border controls?

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	marton
	LOL Ireland is also not in Schengen so maybe the British rely on Irish external border controls?

They do! But in any case the border is unworkable because it is just a line on a map made almost a 100 years ago. It was never actually been marked out and in many cases it runs through farm yards, out buildings and even dwelling houses. And in the absence of official guidance, the locals have even come to their own agreement on where the border is.

[Urs Max]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	They do!

No they don't.

[Blueangel]

Like the diagram. Do you have a source please? I want to bookmark it.

[Phil_MCR]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	But this is exactly the out argument: vote out, don't worry everything will be the same or only a very little change. For the past 40 years the UK has argued for opt outs because their industry could not compete in a market with proximity and full access. And now they are suddenly going to be able to compete and even develop new markets further a field that are more price sensitive? It can be done, but I expect it will be at the cost of the employees wages. Will the UK standard of living suffer?

I couldn't find any industry opt-outs as you referred to.

The only ones I found were these: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opt-ou...European_Union

The UK can and does compete in Europe. I'd argue it is the opposite with Germany blocking opening of the service markets which is perhaps the biggest failure of UK policy in Europe and shows that EU protectionism continues to serve German interests at the expense of the UK service industry.

[Urs Max]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Like the diagram. Do you have a source please? I want to bookmark it.

Sorry, thought not worth giving a reference as it's from wiki.

The first hit I get displayed when searching for "wiki schengen area" is:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area
which is the page I got the chart from.

[amogles]

It's not just about a Brexit any more.

Other countries are rumbling about their own exit strategies. Maybe the next big topic will be a Nexit

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politi...Claude-Juncker

It seems there is also talk about a Czexit.

Maybe before we embark on a variaty of further euexits, the German CDU can convince their leader to step on that plane to Chile and call it a Mexit.

[greenmount]

	Quote:	amogles
	It's not just about a Brexit any more. Other countries are rumbling about their own exit strategies. Maybe the next big topic will be a Nexit http://www.express.co.uk/news/politi...Claude-Juncker It seems there is also talk about a Czexit. Maybe before we embark on a variaty of further euexits, the German CDU can convince their leader to step on that plane to Chile and call it a Mexit.

My feeling is that we will realise only too late the importance of EU. Sure, everyone feels now that they can manage much better outside of it. We will see.

[AbFab]

	Quote:	greenmount
	My feeling is that we will realise only too late the importance of EU. Sure, everyone feels now that they can manage much better outside of it. We will see.

Well, we've had 40 waiting to see the importance...

[greenmount]

	Quote:	AbFab
	Well, we've had 40 waiting to see the importance...

Of course.

[amogles]

	Quote:	greenmount
	My feeling is that we will realise only too late the importance of EU. Sure, everyone feels now that they can manage much better outside of it. We will see.

Which is why maybe the Mexit will be the only way to preserve European unity.

[greenmount]

	Quote:	amogles
	Which is why maybe the Mexit will be the only way to preserve European unity.

I wouldn't be so sure that Brexit will have a domino effect. Germany, France and other countries have a lot to lose, perhaps everyone will be happy that UK can finally move on. It is kind of tiring from where I stand.

[amogles]

	Quote:	greenmount
	I wouldn't be so sure that Brexit will have a domino effect. Germany, France and other countries have a lot to lose, perhaps everyone will be happy that UK can finally move on. It is kind of tiring from where I stand.

I believe that unles something dramatic happens between here and June, that the Brexit will not get through. The numbers will be tight but the in side has the upper hand.

But such a result will not put Euroscepticism to rest, not by a long way.

This slipped under the radar of most mainstream media yesterday (perhaps deliberately?), but there was an EU related referendum yesterday in the Netherlands yesterday to ratify the EU-Ukraine deal. This was resoundingly defeated (62% against, 38% for), with a 32% turnout ensuring that the referendum was valid.

The referendum isn't legally binding (other EU countries have ratified it through parliaments), but now the EU will have to willfully ignore the Dutch voters directly before the Brexit referendum. This is a great advert for the EU.

Commentators have also spoken about the effect of the internet in rallying the No voters to vote, with it being far more effective than mainstream media.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/...-deal-38184454

https://www.rt.com/news/338694-dutch...um-ukraine-eu/