The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[Reb77Br]

About consultative and non-binding nature of the EU referendum:


House of Commons Library - Briefing paper on European Union Referendum Bill


page 25:


"This Bill requires a referendum to be held on the question of the UK’s continued membership of the European Union (EU) before the end of 2017. It does not contain any requirement for the UK Government to implement the results of the referendum, nor set a time limit by which a vote to leave the EU should be implemented. Instead, this is a type of referendum known as pre-legislative or consultative, which enables the electorate to voice an opinion which then influences the Government in its policy decisions. The referendums held in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland in 1997 and 1998 are examples of this type, where opinion was tested before legislation was introduced. The UK does not have constitutional provisions which would require the results of a referendum to be implemented, unlike, for example, the Republic of Ireland, where the circumstances in which a binding referendum should be held are set out in its constitution."

European Union Referendum Act 2015

[Sbrinz]

Both Britain & Switzerland, have a very similar problem, past Referendum and Free Movement of People,

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37155058

[Reb77Br]

(Pro-Brexit Conservative) MP Heather Wheeler sparks Twitter backlash with British Empire post

"The post angered many Twitter uses and was shared by hundreds of people. Tory Mrs Wheeler though told the Mail this morning it was 'nothing more than a tongue in cheek pop' at the European Parliament.
The European Parliament Twitter account had earlier uploaded a graphic celebrating European Union medals – highlight the 325 won by EU countries, compared to the USA's 121 and China's 70. Mrs Wheeler said: "It was a tongue in cheek pop after the European Parliament tweet – it was purely that."
http://www.burtonmail.co.uk/mp-heath...vKTy9tfXsYd.99

Since the UK (or "Great Britain" as known during the Olympics for some reason) won 67 medals (27 golds) it would seem that the rest of the EU countries put together did better than the UK (e.g. France + Germany + Italy = 112 medals (35 golds)).
http://www.nbcolympics.com/medals

	Quote:	Reb77Br
	MP Heather Wheeler sparks Twitter backlash with British Empire post [I] "The post angered many Twitter uses and was shared by hundreds of people.

"Angry backlashes" make me laugh. I realise Twitter and social media gives everyone a voice, yet few have developed the skills and sense of what to do with it.

Talk about First World problems. People place way too much value on their own sense of feeling offended. As if it actually wrought out anything useful.

[Chuff]

Theresa May will trigger Brexit negotiations without Commons vote http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...t-commons-vot/

[Mikers]

	Quote:	Chuff
	Theresa May will trigger Brexit negotiations without Commons vote http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...t-commons-vot/

i bet there will be a legal challenge.

[k_and_e]

	Quote:	Chuff
	Theresa May will trigger Brexit negotiations without Commons vote http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...t-commons-vot/

	Quote:
	“We will vote in Parliament to block any attempt to invoke Article 50 until Theresa May commits to a second referendum or a general election on whatever the EU exit deal emerges at the end of the process. I hope Jeremy will support me in such a move."

now that is democracy

[marton]

	Quote:	Reb77Br
	(Pro-Brexit Conservative) MP Heather Wheeler sparks Twitter backlash with British Empire post "The post angered many Twitter uses and was shared by hundreds of people. Tory Mrs Wheeler though told the Mail this morning it was 'nothing more than a tongue in cheek pop' at the European Parliament. The European Parliament Twitter account had earlier uploaded a graphic celebrating European Union medals – highlight the 325 won by EU countries, compared to the USA's 121 and China's 70. Mrs Wheeler said: "It was a tongue in cheek pop after the European Parliament tweet – it was purely that." http://www.burtonmail.co.uk/mp-heath...vKTy9tfXsYd.99 Since the UK (or "Great Britain" as known during the Olympics for some reason) won 67 medals (27 golds) it would seem that the rest of the EU countries put together did better than the UK (e.g. France + Germany + Italy = 112 medals (35 golds)). http://www.nbcolympics.com/medals

According to the Heather Wheeler twitter there were ca. 960 medals whereas the EU one there were ca. 520.

Do I sense some number cherry picking Surely not

German Vice Chancellor blames Brexit for EU troubles.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...erman-minister

But the real problem is the EU is a premised on many bad ideas to begin with. How are voters to blame for the EU's own fragility?

There are talks of deliberately hurting the UK, even though it is totally unnecessary. I just wonder whether Bremainers would rather inflict harm on their own country to vindicate their own position, and out of their love for the EU. That would seem somewhat treasonous.

	Quote:	marton
	According to the Heather Wheeler twitter there were ca. 960 medals whereas the EU one there were ca. 520. Do I sense some number cherry picking Surely not

Her tweet compared the gold medal haul of the now-defunct and non-existent "British Empire" vs the EU (less the UK).

The UK (or GB) won far fewer medals, obviously, than the "British Empire" as it is but a small subset thereof. (I wonder why she didn't include the US tally in her "British Empire" total.)

	Quote:	Phos
	But the real problem is the EU is a premised on many bad ideas to begin with. How are voters to blame for the EU's own fragility?

Your personal analysis, Professor Phos.

	Quote:
	Your personal analysis, Professor Phos.

Not so personal, as I didn't even vote. Besides, its simple common logic.

Its quite a widespread perspective, and apparently in the majority until proven otherwise by a referendum.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworst.../#7ed80e7343ce

[rainer_d]

	Quote:	Phos
	German Vice Chancellor blames Brexit for EU troubles. http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...erman-minister

Nobody takes him serious anyway.
He'll insure that the Social Democratic Party will slip to single-digits in the next election.
The disillusioned voters flock to AfD, the others to the Green party or right to CDU.

	Quote:	rainer_d
	Nobody takes him serious anyway. He'll insure that the Social Democratic Party will slip to single-digits in the next election. The disillusioned voters flock to AfD, the others to the Green party or right to CDU.

The sentiment to intentionally punish the UK is widespread amongst EU proponents. I've seen written papers and statements by EU proponents. I just wonder if this is acceptable to those who wished to remain, to injure the UK so that they can feel vindicated about the vote.

	Quote:	Phos
	Not so personal, as I didn't even vote. Besides, its simple common logic. Its quite a widespread perspective, and apparently in the majority until proven otherwise by a referendum. http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworst.../#7ed80e7343ce

Could you try to make that make sense, please? You want to have a referendum now on whether voters are to blame for the EU's own fragility? Why on Earth would you do that?

And you're saying that the opinion of one guy who states that he writes "here and there on this and that" and is "strangely, one of the global experts on the metal scandium, one of the rare earths" represents a "widespread perspective, and apparently in the majority"?

[TobiasM]

	Quote:	Phos
	The sentiment to intentionally punish the UK is widespread amongst EU proponents. I've seen written papers and statements by EU proponents. I just wonder if this is acceptable to those who wished to remain, to injure the UK so that they can feel vindicated about the vote.

We already shot ourselves in the foot! What do you expect them to do, just shrug their shoulders, pat udon the back and carry on? Think about it, if there are no consequences for those that quit then more misguided (misinformed) nations with a similar nationalistic bent might think there are more benefits out then in. The negative response of those that wanted to remain will have no influence on the eventual outcome, be it good or bad. Personally I think it was the stupidest gamble and it's going to backfire immensely on the UK. The EU will punish us, simply because us leaving will damage it, not permenantly but significantly.

	Quote:	Phos
	But the real problem is the EU is a premised on many bad ideas to begin with. How are voters to blame for the EU's own fragility?

I don't think "blame" is the right word but there's definitely a feeling that voters didn't know whether they were coming or going with the campaigning in the run up to the referendum. The mud-slinging and skulduggery was face-palm embarrassing.

From my own personal feelings (so it's highly subjective, obvs!), I could have lived with a result either way if the campaigning had actually provided voters with a concrete and honest set of facts and figures for them to make as informed opinion as possible. OK, if you vote out because the facts you've been presented with really resonate with you and your family then fine. Same goes for if you voted in.

They just about stopped short of promising a free unicorn and a trip to Mars.

Sorry if this rakes over old ground but there's a million pages on this thread.

The referendum is done. The punishments are optional. Furthermore, any punishment on the UK is punishment on the EU itself. The EU will more likely to suffer more by such punishment than by the UK. Who would be to blame for it, Brexit or the EU? And who is to blame for the EU's own fragility? Would it be that smart or childish? Which side of the punishment issue would UK Bremainers weigh in on?

	Quote:	Phos
	The referendum is done. The punishments are optional. Furthermore, any punishment on the UK is punishment on the EU itself. The EU will more likely to suffer more by such punishment than by the UK. Who would be to blame for it, Brexit or the EU? And who is to blame for the EU's own fragility? Would it be that smart or childish? Which side of the punishment issue would UK Bremainers weigh in on?

So run another referendum or a general election on the Brexit issue, as already suggested by Labour. Then you'll get a definitive result. that's the only way to ensure a democratic outcome from this mess.

	Quote:
	So run another referendum or a general election on the Brexit issue, as already suggested by Labour. Then you'll get a definitive result. that's the only way to ensure a democratic outcome from this mess.

There won't be one. Doesn't answer the question on whether Bremainers are in favor of punishing the UK needlessly and intentionally.