The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

	Quote:	Phos
	He probably feels its money they've swindled from other countries anyway. And from the salary someone posted, we have low level managers that earn much more than that. I don't really think drawing that money for his position is really as damning.

Actually, trousering the money, even if you disagree with its source, is also not the noble thing to do. Donate it to your campaign or give it to the home for retired donkeys. Whatever makes it look like you're serious.

	Quote:	Phos
	Let's get to the meat of the matter. Could anyone point out the lies Farage have made, other than the NHS campaign which was covered?

Farage already distanced himself from the NHS thing, apparently that was someone else in UKIP that put that one out, although it didn't stop him hitching a ride on the battle bus with it plastered on the side.

I think "lies" are over-doing it a bit (and are a bit shouty tabloid headline). They were more "bending the truth" about things like costs of being in the EU whilst not really mentioning the rebates and funding the UK gets. Immigration figures were massaged to lump in any bugger who had come to the UK to work or live in the UK from the illegals sneaking across in lorries pocketing benefits to the top Swedish ophthalmic consultant.

Not strictly "untrue" but written in the worst possible light to get people to fill in those gaps you mention.

Plus, as I mentioned earlier, you would be hard pressed to find anyone on either side of the campaigning putting their name to any of the "facts and stats". Except maybe Boris and his bus.

[marton]

	Quote:	Phos
	Marton, try to do a quick count of how many of your responses are directed at me rather than the point I make. This is one. I don't even bother responding to them as they tend to divert from the point. But its true that its much easier to convey a picture with a few words when I'm bored.

Well if you post in a forum then you always run the risk that another forum member will reply

	Quote:	Phos
	........ Let's get to the meat of the matter. Could anyone point out the lies Farage have made, other than the NHS campaign which was covered?

The former Prime Minister of Belgium has accused Nigel Farage of lying on migration, Turkey and the NHS in a heated European Parliament debate on the Brexit.

Source

Guy Verhofstadt, told the Ukip leader: “Finally we will be getting rid of the biggest waste in the EU budget – that we have paid for 17 years of your salary.”

Or an article here claims to list six lies written by Farage in an Express article!

	Quote:	marton
	The former Prime Minister of Belgium has accused Nigel Farage of lying on migration, Turkey and the NHS in a heated European Parliament debate on the Brexit. Source Guy Verhofstadt, told the Ukip leader: “Finally we will be getting rid of the biggest waste in the EU budget – that we have paid for 17 years of your salary.” Or an article here claims to list six lies written by Farage in an Express article!

They count 6. Imagine if they count Hillary and Trump's lies. As well as Cameron, Merkel, Juncker, etc.

It use to be the job of journalists to track them, until their jobs became political punditry. It would be great for a new honest media or watch group to track all of them impartially.

[Reb77Br]

Regarding lies, how true is it that immigrants are a significant cause of pressure on public services?

"UKIP believes immigration is far too high.
Seven million immigrants came to live in Britain under the last Labour government and another two million have arrived under the Tories.
The pressure on housing and on public services such as schools, hospitals, transport networks, power and water supplies, is far too great. We must control immigration."
UKIP manifesto summary

Are these figures accurate and how many people died during that period?

"Immigration will continue out of control putting public services like the NHS under strain"
Leave campaign literature

Is immigration really "out of control" and putting public services under significant strain? Why do they just refer to "immigration" and not "EU immigration"?

"Controlling" EU immigration was a major plank of the Leave campaign (unlike UKIP's use of the word above, which seems to mean "reduce", as it is combined with the claim that immigration is "far too high", Johnson/Stuart/Leadsom did not say they planned to reduce immigration and dodged that question during the Wembley debate). EU immigrants apparently account for around 3 million of a population of around 60 million, or 5% (source). It's hard to see how 5% of the population can be the root cause of pressure on public services.


So I think this is a lie that taps into xenophobia. "Let's control immigration" = "you don't like foreigners? neither do we, so vote for us"

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	marton
	But that was a poll from last June about how well Farage was managing the job of leading UKIP (nothing about his popularity); but he has now resigned from that job so this poll no longer has any relevance

I can honestly say, of all my friends, family and acquaintances, I can count on one hand the number of people who would disagree with Adam Hills' exceptionally eloquent assessment of Farage. And don't even dream of dissing Adam Hills. He's firmly in the Louis Theroux club of thinking women's top totty.

How does this work?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnNeWQlpjso

	Quote:	Reb77Br
	So I think this is a lie that taps into xenophobia. "Let's control immigration" = "you don't like foreigners? neither do we, so vote for us"

Is this truly a lie or projection and analysis of future uncontrolled immigration?

[Cornerstone]

We all know that both Brexit & remain campaigns were lacking in so many ways but the continued self righteous remainers have now proved they don't beleive in demecoracy & only hold their views & opinions as gospel. Remainers,Liberal lefties have a closed brain to anything that they don't think or feel. On the odd occasion you can get to start some sort of debt or discussion with one of these types they will soon close down & return to calling you & everyone else that has a different opinion to them "thick,ignorant,racisit & homophobic"!!
There is nothing you can do or say to these people to make them even glimpse at other possibilities,opinions or views..

[JagWaugh]

	Quote:	Phos
	Is this truly a lie or projection and analysis of future uncontrolled immigration?

Wouldn't that depend on the accuracy of his, and your, crystal ball?

[CorsebouTheReturn]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	I can honestly say, of all my friends, family and acquaintances, I can count on one hand the number of people who would disagree with Adam Hills' exceptionally eloquent assessment of Farage. And don't even dream of dissing Adam Hills. He's firmly in the Louis Theroux club of thinking women's top totty. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnNeWQlpjso

First quantity does not mean quality- No offense intended here.

Second, it's the first time I see this "adam hills". I have mixed feelings between watching a rude person, a clown, or both.

Now as for the content, I see some personal comments about Mr Farage smoking, which is like Gossip level +500.
The rest is some debatable generalization or petty comments.

I could make a far more accurate and sour show about some of my colleagues, and get everyone in the office to agree. That would not make my performance any valuable or putting in doubts my colleagues' daily actions or work performance or alleged professional results.

I think the video was intended to be mix between caricature and funny. I am not offended by it but I doubt it can be a fair professional recommendation on Mr Farage.
As for the comedy side, it's like some pathetic gossip show for the trendy TV losers, definitely not my type of humor.

Shame coming from UK who have a ton of excellent humorists like Ricky Gervais , Rik Mayall, etc... why naming a few while there are so many?

[Cornerstone]

And how many lies were told by Cameron & his remain minions?!

	Quote:	Cornerstone
	We all know that both Brexit & remain campaigns were lacking in so many ways but the continued self righteous remainers have now proved they don't beleive in demecoracy & only hold their views & opinions as gospel. Remainers,Liberal lefties have a closed brain to anything that they don't think or feel. On the odd occasion you can get to start some sort of debt or discussion with one of these types they will soon close down & return to calling you & everyone else that has a different opinion to them "thick,ignorant,racisit & homophobic"!! There is nothing you can do or say to these people to make them even glimpse at other possibilities,opinions or views..

To be fair, I'm not sure you can label all remainers as left voters in the same way not all Brexiters were typically right of the political spectrum.

But welcome to the forum, anyway.

[Cornerstone]

	Quote:
	To be fair, I'm not sure you can label all remainers as left voters in the same way not all Brexiters were typically right of the political spectrum. But welcome to the forum, anyway.

That is why I wrote "remainers,liberals & LEFTIES" so they all have their own catagories(even though it is wrong to generalise);-)!?!

	Quote:	Cornerstone
	That is why I wrote "remainers,liberals & LEFTIES" so they all have their own catagories(even though it is wrong to generalise);-)!?!

Ps. Sorry I left out the other common catch phrase used to discribe Brexit voters by remainers etc., "Nazis"

[marton]

	Quote:	Cornerstone
	We all know that both Brexit & remain campaigns were lacking in so many ways but the continued self righteous remainers have now proved they don't beleive in demecoracy & only hold their views & opinions as gospel. Remainers,Liberal lefties have a closed brain to anything that they don't think or feel. On the odd occasion you can get to start some sort of debt or discussion with one of these types they will soon close down & return to calling you & everyone else that has a different opinion to them "thick,ignorant,racisit & homophobic"!! There is nothing you can do or say to these people to make them even glimpse at other possibilities,opinions or views..

"thick,ignorant" well if you want to avoid giving people such a false perception you could try investing in a spell checker?

Maybe also a grammar checker and think about using paragraphs?

Please can you explain what you mean by "to start some sort of debt"? You want to borrow money from Remainers?

Anyway welcome to the Forum; there is an introduction section here.

	Quote:	Cornerstone
	We all know that both Brexit & remain campaigns were lacking in so many ways but the continued self righteous remainers have now proved they don't beleive in demecoracy & only hold their views & opinions as gospel. Remainers,Liberal lefties have a closed brain to anything that they don't think or feel. On the odd occasion you can get to start some sort of debt or discussion with one of these types they will soon close down & return to calling you & everyone else that has a different opinion to them "thick,ignorant,racisit & homophobic"!! There is nothing you can do or say to these people to make them even glimpse at other possibilities,opinions or views..

So completely unlike Farage who, shortly after the polls closed and when he thought he had lost, promised to fight for a second referendum?

[marton]

	Quote:	CorsebouTheReturn
	First quantity does not mean quality- No offense intended here. Second, it's the first time I see this "adam hills". I have mixed feelings between watching a rude person, a clown, or both. Now as for the content, I see some personal comments about Mr Farage smoking, which is like Gossip level +500. The rest is some debatable generalization or petty comments. I could make a far more accurate and sour show about some of my colleagues, and get everyone in the office to agree. That would not make my performance any valuable or putting in doubts my colleagues' daily actions or work performance or alleged professional results. I think the video was intended to be mix between caricature and funny. I am not offended by it but I doubt it can be a fair professional recommendation on Mr Farage. As for the comedy side, it's like some pathetic gossip show for the trendy TV losers, definitely not my type of humor. Shame coming from UK who have a ton of excellent humorists like Ricky Gervais , Rik Mayall, etc... why naming a few while there are so many?

"First quantity does not mean quality" You are now describing the Brexit voters?

	Quote:	CorsebouTheReturn
	...Now as for the content, I see some personal comments about Mr Farage smoking, which is like Gossip level +500...

You really didn't understand what he was saying, did you.

	Quote:	CorsebouTheReturn
	Shame coming from UK who have a ton of excellent humorists like Ricky Gervais , Rik Mayall, etc... why naming a few while there are so many?

Ricky Gervais on Brexit:


"What's depressing, are the reasons behind it. There's obviously a fraction [of Leave voters] who are xenophobic and racist, but that's the way of the world. People blame foreigners. It's terrible.
"The truth is, we would've been better in. They're not going to get the Britain they want. They're dreaming. What do they think it's going to be? They're going to go back to the f****** Victorian times?
“They've been sold a lie, their life hasn't turned out like they thought, and they're blaming someone. And now they're gloating about it.”


http://www.standard.co.uk/showbiz/ce...-a3317411.html

[CorsebouTheReturn]

	Quote:
	Ricky Gervais on Brexit: "What's depressing, are the reasons behind it. There's obviously a fraction [of Leave voters] who are xenophobic and racist, but that's the way of the world. People blame foreigners. It's terrible. "The truth is, we would've been better in. They're not going to get the Britain they want. They're dreaming. What do they think it's going to be? They're going to go back to the f****** Victorian times? “They've been sold a lie, their life hasn't turned out like they thought, and they're blaming someone. And now they're gloating about it.”

Great, he's entitled to his own opinion. Does not mean he's not funny.

And if we had to react to his comment, I'd say he is probably true. Nonetheless, I wish to believe that it can be a great opportunity for British people to avoid further problems and to have a better lifetime than the EU bureaucrats version.
Never knew Victorian times, and I doubt it's about regressing, but having more control on their future.

Only if a few more politicians heads are falling, and only with a lot more motivation from current politicians from all sides*.

*which probably means "game over" or "you won, get lost".

[amogles]

	Quote:	marton
	The former Prime Minister of Belgium has accused Nigel Farage of lying on migration, Turkey and the NHS in a heated European Parliament debate on the Brexit. Source Guy Verhofstadt, told the Ukip leader: “Finally we will be getting rid of the biggest waste in the EU budget – that we have paid for 17 years of your salary.” Or an article here claims to list six lies written by Farage in an Express article!

So basically Guy Verhofstadt had a go at Nigel Farage..

In other words, nothing new happened but the Independent wrote about it.

[Reb77Br]

baboon wrote:

	Quote:
	Ricky Gervais on Brexit: "What's depressing, are the reasons behind it. There's obviously a fraction [of Leave voters] who are xenophobic and racist, but that's the way of the world. People blame foreigners. It's terrible. "The truth is, we would've been better in. They're not going to get the Britain they want. They're dreaming. What do they think it's going to be? They're going to go back to the f****** Victorian times? “They've been sold a lie, their life hasn't turned out like they thought, and they're blaming someone. And now they're gloating about it.”

A few funnies (depending on taste!) about Brexit.

Before the referendum:
ZDF Heute Show - The UK leaving the EU
ZDF Heute Show - The Brexit referendum and Britain
Last week tonight with John Oliver

After the referendum:
Andy Richter explains Brexit
The Daily Show with Trevor Noah
Full Frontal with Samantha Bee