The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[amogles]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Almost lost for words. Hated by millions. Vilified by millions. Envied by nobody. He has no redeeming features and I hate saying that about anyone. My dear Phos, we truely live in parallel universes.

What makes you think Farage is not admired?

All the time I am meeting people from EU countries and beyond who tell me, what we need in our country is a Farage.

We are living in truly parallel universes indeed.

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Almost lost for words. Hated by millions. Vilified by millions. Envied by nobody. He has no redeeming features and I hate saying that about anyone. My dear Phos, we truely live in parallel universes.

Farage makes my skin crawl and I find his politics slimy BUT, UKIP did get a ground-swell of support in the 2015 election, picking up something like 3.5 million votes. There was a big hoo-hah because the current election rules meant his party only got one seat in parliament.

He has a good nose for bandwagon politics and it wins him votes.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	amogles
	What makes you think Farage is not admired?

I never said that. Even the worst that humanity has to offer is capable of inspiring admiration amongst others of their ilk.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	amogles
	All the time I am meeting people from EU countries and beyond who tell me, what we need in our country is a Farage.

Strange that... statistically speaking you should be meeting few such people, so we can conclude you are either talking about your mates or you meet very few EU citizens.

[rainer_d]

	Quote:	marton
	People keep referring to the EU as if it is a single entity; it is not it is; 27 countries a Commission a Parliament

And most important: each of these has their own idea of "Europe" and how it should be and look like.

Its very simple (for most people) to make an unbiased and objective assessment of Nigel Farage's career and his impact on the UK. Clearly the man deserves to be knighted, more so than the long list of daffy celebrities.

I'd give it a decade or so for some people to see it clearly, although granted some never will.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	Phos
	Its very simple (for most people) to make an unbiased and objective assessment of Nigel Farage's career and his impact on the UK.

The day that you make an unbiased assessment, Trump will be pope.

	Quote:	Blueangel
	The day that you make an unbiased assessment, Trump will be pope.

I see no indication whatsoever you are capable of recognising one.

[NomadAmericano]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	Strange that... statistically speaking you should be meeting few such people, so we can conclude you are either talking about your mates or you meet very few EU citizens.

That's a but uncharitable, Jim. I know many Irish who say the UK was right to vote Leave (even though it puts Ireland in the toughest spot of all). I wouldn't say they love Farage, but there are plenty of people in EU states that want out and would naturally express such a sentiment.

[marton]

	Quote:	Phos
	I see no indication whatsoever you are capable of recognising one.

Mirror, mirror on the wall!

[marton]

	Quote:	amogles
	What makes you think Farage is not admired? All the time I am meeting people from EU countries and beyond who tell me, what we need in our country is a Farage. We are living in truly parallel universes indeed.

We need Farage in Switzerland?

Or did you mean to post "what they need in their countries is a Farage".

	Quote:	Phos
	Its very simple (for most people) to make an unbiased and objective assessment of Nigel Farage's career and his impact on the UK. Clearly the man deserves to be knighted, more so than the long list of daffy celebrities. I'd give it a decade or so for some people to see it clearly, although granted some never will.

Has any politician managed to keep a reputation for a decade? Most British MPs seem crash and burn fairly rapidly.

[Pachyderm]

	Quote:	marton
	People keep referring to the EU as if it is a single entity; it is not it is; 27 countries a Commission a Parliament

You can't be genuinely puzzled by this, surely? The EU is a single entity in the same way that Manchester United is a single entity. But if you're watching a football match, Manchester United is, or are, suddenly 11 players and a sulky coach. So context is everything.

You must have heard many people say "I love Europe but dislike the EU". They're referring to the EU as the single legal entity there, and its lumbering bureaucracy -- not the individual nations, and certainly not their populations.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	Phos
	I see no indication whatsoever you are capable of recognising one.

Oh I am. Loz is more than capable of making an unbiased assessment. I get the impression that you mistake an unbiaded assessment with an uneducated opinion, and by saying that, I mean that the poster isn't in full possession of the facts, not that they're uneducated generally.

It's all well and good having your opinions, but with this particular subject, it is just an opinion and the subject matter has zero impact upon your life. That would be fine if you presented all sides of the arguement from a position of neutrality before coming to a conclusion, but you keep raising the likes of Churchill, Thatcher and Farage as justification for your opinion. Funny thing is, is seriously doubt Churchill would have tolerated Thatcher, and she in turn would have annihilated Farage.

All I see is that you abhor the EU and would support anyone who tries to dismantle it, regardless of their political persuasion or agenda. That's worrying.

In all these pages, I still have absolutely no idea why you care about this subject and why you hold such venom towards the EU, to devote so much time to it?

[Pachyderm]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Almost lost for words. Hated by millions. Vilified by millions. Envied by nobody. He has no redeeming features and I hate saying that about anyone.

The point being made (I thought) was that Farage would be envied by many on the basis of being "the most successful politician in Britain" (as The Times put it).

As for his popularity, he's probably the closest you'll ever get to a 'Marmite politician'. I can only think of Margaret Thatcher as one who polarises opinion in the same way. I find it hard to like the guy myself though I do find him entertaining and articulate.

	Quote:	Blueangel
	It's all well and good having your opinions, but with this particular subject, it is just an opinion and the subject matter has zero impact upon your life. That would be fine if you presented all sides of the arguement from a position of neutrality before coming to a conclusion, but you keep raising the likes of Churchill, Thatcher and Farage as justification for your opinion. Funny thing is, is seriously doubt Churchill would have tolerated Thatcher, and she in turn would have annihilated Farage.

That is where you lack objectivity, because you think its about you and how you feel.

[Pachyderm]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	...... Thatcher, and she in turn would have annihilated Farage.

Oh, I don't think so, but what a fascinating thought -- Thatcher v Farage in a debate. Very different styles but Farage seems just as undentable as Thatch was. Immoveable object / irresistible force comes to mind.

[marton]

	Quote:	Pachyderm
	You can't be genuinely puzzled by this, surely? The EU is a single entity in the same way that Manchester United is a single entity. But if you're watching a football match, Manchester United is suddenly 11 players and a sulky coach. So context is everything. You must have heard many people say "I love Europe but dislike the EU". They're referring to the EU as the single legal entity there, and its lumbering bureaucracy -- not the individual nations, and certainly not their populations.

"You must have heard many people say "I love Europe but dislike the EU". " I have but they are wrong.
"They're referring to the EU as the single legal entity" But it is not a single legal entity! There have been several attempts to fix this (like the treaty of Rome) but none were completely ratified.

EU decision-making involves three main institutions:

• the European Commission which represents the interests of the EU as a whole,
• the Council of the European Union which represents the individual member countries,
• the European Parliament, which represents EU citizens and is directly elected by them.

You compare the EU to Manchester United but that is false.
It is more like FIFA but even FIFA is a heirarchy. The EU requires that three different institutions agree on decisions; no one of these can force the other two to agree but each one of these three can block decisions.

So saying "I love Europe but dislike the EU" is nonsense. You could, for example, say I love the Council of Europe and the Europe Parliament but I do not like the European Commission?

If you note, Marton, that the Brexit question does indeed ask whether or not to leave the EU. Its referred to as a singular entity.

[marton]

	Quote:	Phos
	That is where you lack objectivity, because you think its about you and how you feel.

I thought it was about you; so I am wrong again