The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[Mikers]

	Quote:	marton
	"it's a fixed term contract" Hunt wants to train more British doctors; so is this an attractive offer? "its tools down" Well most people would react like this when told they will earn less for the same work? It is not who you photograph but how you position them Who was stupid enough to write Country on their conference banner?

Yes it's an attractive offer. Most people don't have the privilege of 5 years of medical training from the state.

[Reb77Br]

Is Theresa May courting the far right or Marine Le Pen turning moderate?

Marine Le Pen endorses Theresa May's 'if you're a citizen of the world, you're a citizen of nowhere' comment

One of the most controversial comments of Theresa May’s Conservative conference speech has received a ringing endorsement from French far right leader, Marine Le Pen.

The monologue dealt with numerous issues in classical Conservative rhetoric, attempting to appeal to the party’s core grassroots support and other potential voters. But the Prime Minister also signalled a sharp swing to the right, talking about national pride and immigration in much stronger terms than her predecessor, David Cameron, ever did.

“If you believe you’re a citizen of the world, you’re a citizen of nowhere,” she said in the 7,000 word speech.

Ms Le Pen was quick to respond on Twitter, saying: “Exactly. If you believe that you are a world citizen, you are a citizen of nowhere.”

[marton]

	Quote:	Mikers
	Yes it's an attractive offer. Most people don't have the privilege of 5 years of medical training from the state.

It is not a privilege; they have to prove they are the right material.

I've never agreed with Jeremy Hunt - until now. To ask new doctors that have been trained at great cost to the tax payer to work for 4 years post qualification is totally fair, I believe. Is that not the case any longer for those paid during their studies by the Army?

Truly feel European and a citizen of the world- as well as Swiss and British- no contradiction there, at all.

[Mikers]

	Quote:	marton
	It is not a privilege; they have to prove they are the right material.

The world has millions of clever people. Only a tiny fraction of them get a whopping free training program from the state.

[Britething]

	Quote:	Reb77Br
	Is Theresa May courting the far right or Marine Le Pen turning moderate? Marine Le Pen endorses Theresa May's 'if you're a citizen of the world, you're a citizen of nowhere' comment One of the most controversial comments of Theresa May’s Conservative conference speech has received a ringing endorsement from French far right leader, Marine Le Pen. The monologue dealt with numerous issues in classical Conservative rhetoric, attempting to appeal to the party’s core grassroots support and other potential voters. But the Prime Minister also signalled a sharp swing to the right, talking about national pride and immigration in much stronger terms than her predecessor, David Cameron, ever did. “If you believe you’re a citizen of the world, you’re a citizen of nowhere,” she said in the 7,000 word speech. Ms Le Pen was quick to respond on Twitter, saying: “Exactly. If you believe that you are a world citizen, you are a citizen of nowhere.”

This is post-Brexit fall-out. Le Pen wants to push for a similar referendum in France. Why May is starting to use rhetoric like this is bizarre. She must feel a need to rally the extreme Leave voters who feel she isn't moving fast enough.

It all sounds like a bad omen to me, both for France and Britain.

Nobel laureate Stiglitz sees Italy, others leaving euro zone in coming years

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Nobel laureate Stiglitz sees Italy, others leaving euro zone in coming years

The great thing about economists is that you can always find someone to fit your opinions.

[marton]

	Quote:	Mikers
	The world has millions of clever people. Only a tiny fraction of them get a whopping free training program from the state.

Do you see a contradiction between these two sentences?

Anyway it is not true; many countries like Finland, Austria, Norway, Germany, France, Greece, Denmark and Sweden have free university options.
Of course only for EU citizens so Brexiters will not qualify

	Quote:	marton
	Do you see a contradiction between these two sentences? Anyway it is not true; many countries like Finland, Austria, Norway, Germany, France, Greece, Denmark and Sweden have free university options. Of course only for EU citizens so Brexiters will not qualify

I'd say that monolingualism of the average Brit is far more of a hindrance to studying in these countries than Brexit.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	Reb77Br
	Is Theresa May courting the far right or Marine Le Pen turning moderate?

Been biting my tongue on this for so long....

Theresa May is far from moderate.

We all have our little prejudices about how a person presents themselves in business. Some people abhor facial hair and male jewellery. I can't abide ill fitting men's suits, men's trousers being too short and women wearing animal print.

The latter comes from hanging round musicians for most of my life, and repeatedly being told by them, "never trust a woman who wears animal print on more than 10% of her body because they tend to be bunny boilers." Having said that, the worst manager (thankfully not mine) I've ever encountered, used to wear two or three colours of leopard print to the office. Another former colleague even went on tv with Trinny & Susannah to try and break 'her addiction'.

There...I've said it. I'm very aware that it's not a logical thing to say and likely, purely my foible. I'm fine with May's penchant for kitten heels, and she could dress as a Teletubbie in her spare time for all I care, but animal print does not belong in the work place, nevermind on the PM.

[Mikers]

	Quote:	marton
	Do you see a contradiction between these two sentences? Anyway it is not true; many countries like Finland, Austria, Norway, Germany, France, Greece, Denmark and Sweden have free university options. Of course only for EU citizens so Brexiters will not qualify

Many being 10 out of about 300 countries in the world.

this has nothing to do with brexit, its to do with spoilt kids striking because they dont like having to work weekends.

[marton]

	Quote:	Mikers
	Many being 10 out of about 300 countries in the world. this has nothing to do with brexit, its to do with spoilt kids striking because they dont like having to work weekends.

No, it is about people striking because they will earn less for doing the same work.

Never mind, I am sure the NHS can find foreign doctors happy to do this

[Britething]

Tbh, I couldn't care how she dresses. She can wear a plunging neckline, black lace and visible G-strings for all I care.

But a LePen/May courtship is an unholy political alliance in my view.

The Dutch are simmering, waiting for a referendum too. How long till Germany starts clamouring for one?

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Been biting my tongue on this for so long.... Theresa May is far from moderate. We all have our little prejudices about how a person presents themselves in business. Some people abhor facial hair and male jewellery. I can't abide ill fitting men's suits, men's trousers being too short and women wearing animal print. The latter comes from hanging round musicians for most of my life, and repeatedly being told by them, "never trust a woman who wears animal print on more than 10% of her body because they tend to be bunny boilers." Having said that, the worst manager (thankfully not mine) I've ever encountered, used to wear two or three colours of leopard print to the office. Another former colleague even went on tv with Trinny & Susannah to try and break 'her addiction'. There...I've said it. I'm very aware that it's not a logical thing to say and likely, purely my foible. I'm fine with May's penchant for kitten heels, and she could dress as a Teletubbie in her spare time for all I care, but animal print does not belong in the work place, nevermind on the PM.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	marton
	Do you see a contradiction between these two sentences? Anyway it is not true; many countries like Finland, Austria, Norway, Germany, France, Greece, Denmark and Sweden have free university options. Of course only for EU citizens so Brexiters will not qualify

We had a call about this exact issue on Sunday morning from OH's mum. She usually calls between Andrew Marr and Peston On Sunday, and trust me on this much...you don't need either of these commentators when you have an astute little Greek mother-outlaw who could frighten the poop out of a grizzly bear.


The subject of Sunday's call was the brain drain of Greek youth leaving to study and work in a better economy, and a warning that this would also happen to the UK. I'd love to know the percentages of German doctors that are Greek, because I feel like I've met a good few in recent years. My dentist when I worked in Manchester was from Skiathos.


I don't see language being a major block when it comes to studying abroad. It adds to the challenge rather than detracting from the overall experience. And think on this...If our future junior doctors can study abroad (anywhere in the World) and not be bound to work for the NHS for 4yrs, the impact on the medical profession could be catastrophic.

[marton]

I thought the most sinister result from the Tory conference was Amber Rudd's proposals that firms could be forced to disclose what percentage of their workforce is non-British.

What will they do with this info? Set acceptable percentages? Pick up the social costs for foreign workers who are fired due to this policy?
How will this impact Britains working abroad?

Anyway I am shocked that the UK Govt. does not know how many foreigners are in the UK and where they work; surely they keep records of visas issued?

The home secretary believes firms are "getting away" with not training enough British workers which shows some naivety about the labour market. For example a quarter of the NHS are foreigners; are the NHS about to start training doctors?
Maybe the pharmaceutical research companies should start PhD courses?

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	Britething
	Tbh, I couldn't care how she dresses. She can wear a plunging neckline, black lace and visible G-strings for all I care.

..and I'm sure those images are already floating around somewhere on the internet. Niche market for everything

	Quote:	Britething
	But a LePen/May courtship is an unholy political alliance in my view. The Dutch are simmering, waiting for a referendum too. How long till Germany starts clamouring for one?

Totally agree on LePen.

Something I find disturbing about the British media is that the Daily Express felt the need to publish this article on Tuesday...

	Quote:
	Who is Geert Wilders? Meet the anti-Islam MP who could become the next Dutch PM GEERT WILDERS is the favourite to become the next Dutch Prime Minister. Here’s everything you need to know about the anti-EU, anti-Islam MP.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...ch-netherlands

Preaching to the converted? If their readers didn't become aware of Wilders before the referendum, they must have been living under a rock.

And if that wasn't enough, the same Tory rag chose to follow the article up with this nugget yesterday...

	Quote:
	Now for NEXIT? Dutch 'turn to the right' as eurosceptic Geert Wilders soars in polls HOLLAND is set to make a "decisive turn to the right" in a move which could lead to it following Britain out of the European Union, a prominent Dutch commentator has said.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...ers-Mark-Rutte


This was on the cards back in Spring. LePen was on the cards back then too. Many of us here said this would be the case after the referendum but were accused of supporting Project Fear. Quite a few times I posted that, if anyone was going to leave the EU, I wanted the Netherlands to do it first so that we could point and laugh at their expense.

When the poop hits the fan, with LePen ruling France, Wilders in the Netherlands and Trump in the US, I know a lovely little island in the Mamanucas Islands in Fiji

[marton]

	Quote:	Britething
	Tbh, I couldn't care how she dresses. She can wear a plunging neckline, black lace and visible G-strings for all I care. But a LePen/May courtship is an unholy political alliance in my view. The Dutch are simmering, waiting for a referendum too. How long till Germany starts clamouring for one?

The percentage of people who support a Nexit – the Netherlands pulling out of the EU – has gone down from 24% to 20%, according to new research by the government’s social policy advisory unit SCP.

Source

[Urs Max]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	The subject of Sunday's call was the brain drain of Greek youth leaving to study and work in a better economy, and a warning that this would also happen to the UK. I'd love to know the percentages of German doctors that are Greek, because I feel like I've met a good few in recent years. My dentist when I worked in Manchester was from Skiathos.

These links should be enough to give an idea on recent trends and percentages. Take note of the year they're for. All links in German:
http://www.bundesaerztekammer.de/ueb...tatistik-2015/
http://www.bundesaerztekammer.de/ueb...en-und-aerzte/
https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschl...he-Aerzte.html
https://de.statista.com/infografik/1...n-deutschland/

[Reb77Br]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	The subject of Sunday's call was the brain drain of Greek youth leaving to study and work in a better economy, and a warning that this would also happen to the UK. I'd love to know the percentages of German doctors that are Greek, because I feel like I've met a good few in recent years. My dentist when I worked in Manchester was from Skiathos.

Funny you should say that. I was visiting the "Scientists for EU" Facebook page the other day and under an article posted by the admins (The Guardian: Are you an EU citizen who is leaving Britain due to Brexit?) noticed this Facebook comment:

"My wife is German, I am Greek and we both have a Dr before our name and have been in the UK for over 20 years each. We live in a small market town in the northwest where local people enjoy binge drinking, getting pregnant at 13 and blaming 'bloody foreigners' for 'taking their jobs' (how one can be a doctor with only primary school education is anyone's guess), 'clogging their NHS ' (although we man it) etc. Our UK born six year old trilingual daughter has systematically been targeted by other six year olds whose parents told them that 'she will soon be leaving for her country', and we are conscious of speaking in either of our languages. And now brexiters want us to apply for UK passports if we are to stay? No, thank you."