The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[Sandgrounder]

	Quote:	Phos
	Not for its immigration policy until after Article 50,

That's as maybe, and is likely not to change. Most people seem to be confuse immigration policy with "illegal immigration" but that also won't change because, regardless of whether Brussels is interfering or not, the UK border force couldn't find their foot in a sock when it comes to locating illegals.

	Quote:	Phos
	and also not for all its laws.

Some laws came from the EU but most of the laws are home grown and irrelevant to the EU.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	Phos
	Brexit means Brits now have to actually take responsibility for their own country. Not sure if that is Far Right, whatever that is in people's minds. That is just right and proper. More Europeans ought to follow suit.

Oh for heavens sake... The UK have been responsible for their country, every time the approved an EU treaty change and in particular when they choose to not to apply EU rules intended to control the influx on EU citizens.

[marton]

	Quote:	Phos
	Not for its immigration policy until after Article 50, and also not for all its laws. Brexit shifts the whole political spectrum of the UK to the right. It lops off a huge chunk of the left that would have worked towards dissolution of the country to the EU. So you will even likely hear lefty parties speak of national interest topics and what is good for the country.

Only half of the immigrants came from the EU anyway

[Odile]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	He's got the most slappable face in history. I'd love to see him on a reality tv show submerged in fish guts and still banging on about fishing quotas.

Still waiting for some IT clever clog to super-impose his face on the famous video of weather presenter in a storm being hit by massive fish. Infantile, I know - but I would so enjoy it

https://youtu.be/YZnZ2AOLLBk

[Phos]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	Oh for heavens sake... The UK have been responsible for their country, every time the approved an EU treaty change and in particular when they choose to not to apply EU rules intended to control the influx on EU citizens.

	Quote:	Sandgrounder
	Some laws came from the EU but most of the laws are home grown and irrelevant to the EU.

Quite relevant, actually. If you look at Deutsche Bank, Merkel is unable to bail it out because of Germany's EU membership. Same with Monte Dei Pasche. EU State Aid laws prevents governments from protecting their largest economic engines. Outside the EU, the UK government can service its industries. So it would untie the country's hands in dealing with its problems. This is an EU law that prevents such assistance.

[marton]

	Quote:	Phos
	Quite relevant, actually. If you look at Deutsche Bank, Merkel is unable to bail it out because of Germany's EU membership. Same with Monte Dei Pasche. EU State Aid laws prevents governments from protecting their largest economic engines. Outside the EU, the UK government can service its industries. So it would untie the country's hands in dealing with its problems. This is an EU law that prevents such assistance.

There is no EU law to stop bank bail outs!
There is an EU law that says the bank investors have to pay first to minimise the amount of tax payers money used for a bail out.

In detail
The key new rule is that no bank can be bailed out with public money until creditors accounting for at least 8 percent of the lender’s liabilities have stumped up.
So-called bail-ins typically mean wiping out creditors’ investments, slashing their value or converting them into shares in the bank.
Uninsured depositors could get caught along with professional investors.

I agree with this; why should tax payers be punished first?

I hope that Brexit does not mean the UK will start throwing tax payers money into black banking holes.

[marton]

The problem in Ukip is that many ordinary men and women gave up careers and normal lives to pursue their shared cause of leaving the EU. Now that the referendum has been delivered – and won – not only are there bitter divisions over what the party should do next, a lot of those involved will ultimately lose their jobs once the UK does withdraw and the MEPs give up their seats. The stakes are very high indeed.

Perhaps like Diane James, it’s time Ukip realised it was time to hang up its boots. After all, it has just won an exhausting – but deeply satisfying – fight of its life.

Source

[Urs Max]

	Quote:
	The key new rule is that no bank can be bailed out with public money until creditors accounting for at least 8 percent of the lender’s liabilities have stumped up.

Just for completeness' sake, shareholders must have been wiped out as well. For that reason alone the EU rule is praiseworthy, the UBS bailout couldn't have happened like it did under EU rules.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	Phos
	Quite relevant, actually. If you look at Deutsche Bank, Merkel is unable to bail it out because of Germany's EU membership.

Substituting a lack of knowledge with an ill informed opinion does not make for a good debate! But fell free to come back with the specific directives, regulations and decisions in council that you are referring to.

[Rob]

[Sandgrounder]

	Quote:	Phos
	Quite relevant, actually. If you look at Deutsche Bank, Merkel is unable to bail it out because of Germany's EU membership. Same with Monte Dei Pasche. EU State Aid laws prevents governments from protecting their largest economic engines. Outside the EU, the UK government can service its industries. So it would untie the country's hands in dealing with its problems. This is an EU law that prevents such assistance.

Where are you getting all this information ? A few pages back you were telling us you were a reader of these high brow intellectual publications. This is tabloid stuff.

[marton]

Today's news "Pound plunges 6% in 2 minutes in mysterious flash crash", some sources say 10%

Source

Pound is looking more like the Argentine and Turkish currencies than the good old stable sterling, has now recovered a bit to CHF 1.22.

Must be time for Brown to come back and sell some gold

[Phos]

	Quote:	marton
	There is no EU law to stop bank bail outs! There is an EU law that says the bank investors have to pay first to minimise the amount of tax payers money used for a bail out.

	Quote:	Jim2007
	Substituting a lack of knowledge with an ill informed opinion does not make for a good debate! But fell free to come back with the specific directives, regulations and decisions in council that you are referring to.

	Quote:	Sandgrounder
	Where are you getting all this information ? A few pages back you were telling us you were a reader of these high brow intellectual publications. This is tabloid stuff.

The EU State Aid treaty that is preventing Italy from propping up its bank, Merkel and Deutsche Bank, as well as Apple's back taxes in Ireland. The UK will be able to strategically and tactically support its industries to better manage its national economy.

[marton]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	As if by magic: IMF left shamefaced after peak pessimism over Brexit vote Can anyone remember when the IMF were correct about anything?

Enjoy it while you can.

The £ crashed down again today and the UK credit rating of AAA is just a distant memory

Standard & Poor's credit rating for the United Kingdom stands at AA with negative outlook.
Moody's credit rating for the United Kingdom was last set at Aa1 with negative outlook.
Fitch's credit rating for the United Kingdom was last reported at AA with negative outlook. .

[Sandgrounder]

	Quote:	Phos
	The EU State Aid treaty that is preventing Italy from propping up its bank, Merkel and Deutsche Bank, as well as Apple's back taxes in Ireland. The UK will be able to strategically and tactically support its industries to better manage its national economy.

You know that Ireland is the one back-tracking on clawing back Apple's back taxes, don't you? The EU is seeing it as a due payment to Ireland to cover its costs such as health and welfare but Ireland just wants to keep Apple happy, and located in Ireland.

[marton]

	Quote:	Phos
	The EU State Aid treaty that is preventing Italy from propping up its bank, Merkel and Deutsche Bank, as well as Apple's back taxes in Ireland. The UK will be able to strategically and tactically support its industries to better manage its national economy.

You have not read the treaty have you

Take a look at "Communication from the Commission on the application, from 1 August 2013, of State aid rules to support measures in favour of banks in the context of the financial crisis (‘Banking Communication’)"

	Quote:	marton
	Enjoy it while you can. The £ crashed down again today and the UK credit rating of AAA is just a distant memory Standard & Poor's credit rating for the United Kingdom stands at AA with negative outlook. Moody's credit rating for the United Kingdom was last set at Aa1 with negative outlook. Fitch's credit rating for the United Kingdom was last reported at AA with negative outlook. .

IMF in June: "Brexit will trigger a recession in the UK"
IMF in October: "Britain will be fastest growing G7 economy this year"

Funny thing about all the doom and gloom mongers like you is that you're just waiting and hoping for disaster. Instead of accepting the decision and trying to help shape the future for the UK after Brexit, the remoaners just sit on the side lines slinging mud.

[Sandgrounder]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	IMF in June: "Brexit will trigger a recession in the UK" IMF in October: "Britain will be fastest growing G7 economy this year" Funny thing about all the doom and gloom mongers like you is that you're just waiting and hoping for disaster. Instead of accepting the decision and trying to help shape the future for the UK after Brexit, the remoaners just sit on the side lines slinging mud.

Why do have to say "ALL"??

I, for one, think the situation is shit but if I didn't have family and friends back in the UK I wouldn't give a toss. I don't live there, I don't pay my taxes there or use the services there and the odd dips in Sterling are great opportunities for me to do some cheap shopping.

I care a lot and really hope that the UK doesn't hit a massive downturn and it doesn't adversely affect the people I love who are back there and are staring down an uncertain future.

Having a different viewpoint and looking at things through the goggles of someone who thinks the EU is probably not such a bad thing but needed an overhaul rather than a sledgehammer approach does NOT mean I want the situation to cause problems in my home country.

It's an element of smug Leave voters who are the ones fully convinced of the future that are the ones deluding themselves. How can anyone be sure of what will happen once Brexit actually happens? Because we are still in the period where basically nothing has happened and the UK is still very much part of the EU.

I don't have confidence in the bunch of buffoons currently steering the ship out of the EU. The government and the IMF has no clear plan and are clueless of what could happen.

If you think this is how things should be then it's kind of typical of the average "everything is awesome" Brexit voter.

[Phos]

	Quote:	Sandgrounder
	You know that Ireland is the one back-tracking on clawing back Apple's back taxes, don't you? The EU is seeing it as a due payment to Ireland to cover its costs such as health and welfare but Ireland just wants to keep Apple happy, and located in Ireland.

	Quote:	marton
	You have not read the treaty have you Take a look at "Communication from the Commission on the application, from 1 August 2013, of State aid rules to support measures in favour of banks in the context of the financial crisis (‘Banking Communication’)"

State Aid cases can carry financial penalty, and it isn't there for the hell of it. Its intention is to prevent EU countries from competing with each other, by limiting their range of actions. Not that I am a fan of government intervention in business, but just another example of how Brexit unties the UK's hands. Sovereignty, its called.

	Quote:	Sandgrounder
	Why do have to say "ALL"??

I said ALL doom and gloom mongers, not all Remainers.

	Quote:	Sandgrounder
	I don't have confidence in the bunch of buffoons currently steering the ship out of the EU. The government and the IMF has no clear plan and are clueless of what could happen.

That's my point. Instead of just complaining about it, why don't some of the influential people that voted Remain accept the decision and now try and shape the future. Instead of just leaving it to the buffoons.

They don't even have to be on the same side, but at least provide some opposition other than, "we shouldn't have voted to leave". Fight for soft brexit, fight for FMOP, fight for single market access, fight for what you want rather than just complaining about the result.