The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[Sandgrounder]

	Quote:	Phos
	These messages of "steadfastness" and "resolve" from the EU is mere posturing to distract from their actual incompetence and inability. The fact of the matter is they don't have control over their own situation. They couldn't negotiate a deal even if they wanted to. Just crabs in a bucket at this stage trying to prevent the UK from escaping.

I just realised what's missing from most of your posts. There's a hell of a lot of utterly unsubstantiated information and "the fact of the matter" statements which would make a lot more sense if you started the sentence with "I think..." or "In my opinion..."

I was repeatedly wondering which bizarre publication was pumping this stuff out.

	Quote:	marton
	Do you have a source for this? According to the Office for National Statistics (ONS) Labour Force Survey estimates for 2015 in the UK only half of the EU immigrants come out of the EU10. Source

I don't have time to search properly, this is old but the picture today hasn't much changed:

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	amogles
	If they had done that some years ago, the whole Brexit debacle could have been avoided, but sometimes you need a shock to awake from your complacency.

Had the UK not failed to apply the options set out in the directive on FMOP this debacle either. But the reality is that the UK wanted all the advantages of membership while discriminating against it's citizens and that was never going to to fly and rightly so. People get very upset when they are not treated fairly and EU citizens are no different.

[marton]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	I don't have time to search properly, this is old but the picture today hasn't much changed:

You do know this thread is about Brexit

Anyway nothing strange about the highest number of immigrants in Germany being from Poland since they have a common border.

This whole Brexit immigration business is about closing the stable door after the horse has bolted; Polish immigration numbers have been flat for years (see graph) and according to Polish Minister of Development Mateusz Morawiecki Poles abroad are slowly returning to Poland

[marton]

	Quote:	Sandgrounder
	I just realised what's missing from most of your posts. There's a hell of a lot of utterly unsubstantiated information and "the fact of the matter" statements which would make a lot more sense if you started the sentence with "I think..." or "In my opinion..." I was repeatedly wondering which bizarre publication was pumping this stuff out.

What took you so long

[Urs Max]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	The single market was established long before FMOP. Quotas would be a compromise by allowing FMOP, but not unlimited FMOP. Cherry picking would be demanding access with no FMOP whatsoever.

AFAIK the Treaty of Mastricht created/implemented both, intended to be effective 1992 but postponed to 1993 due to Switzerland's non-participation. Feel free to show me otherwise.

[Phos]

	Quote:	Sandgrounder
	I just realised what's missing from most of your posts. There's a hell of a lot of utterly unsubstantiated information and "the fact of the matter" statements which would make a lot more sense if you started the sentence with "I think..." or "In my opinion..." I was repeatedly wondering which bizarre publication was pumping this stuff out.

If I was trying to parrot someone or some publication, I would just paste a link.

I'm sure you should then agree you ought to post a link with each of your posts.

[marton]

	Quote:	amogles
	So they're assuming the people they are negotiating with are a bunch of liars? Not exacly the best starting position if you want to have a frank discussion.

"So they're assuming the people they are negotiating with are a bunch of liars?" No, sadly it is a proven fact not an assumption.

Quote; "Europe has reacted furiously to Boris Johnson’s appointment as the UK’s foreign secretary, with the French and German foreign ministers respectively calling him “a liar with his back to the wall” and someone whose behaviour has been “outrageous”. "
Source
Interesting that Boris has never specifically denied these allegations.

"Not exactly the best starting position" Well the EU have no other choice? They do not get to pick who are the negotiators for the UK.
Pity for the UK that May did not choose negotiators with more EU cred.

	Quote:	Urs Max
	AFAIK the Treaty of Mastricht created/implemented both, intended to be effective 1992 but postponed to 1993 due to Switzerland's non-participation. Feel free to show me otherwise.

Rather cemented both in name only, in practice the common market had been around for far longer since 1993.

[marton]

UK inflation expectations rocket to 3.5%
Source (might be behind a paywall)

Hurrah, my UK pension will be increased

[Reb77Br]

Brave new Brexit Britain

Sara Hagemann, LSE

[Phos]

The UK joined to access the market. Afterwards came Maastricht and Lisbon. It turned out there was more than met the eye at the time of joining. Some saw this as encroachment, worse an EU deception. Brexit was only a proper referendum to hold.

[Dougal's Breakfast]

	Quote:	Phos
	The UK joined to access the market. Afterwards came Maastricht and Lisbon. It turned out there was more than met the eye at the time of joining. Some saw this as encroachment, worse an EU deception. Brexit was only a proper referendum to hold.

It was in there from the start. The "access to the market" argument was just marketing talk. Many people saw through it at the time (mainly on the left, ironically). Not enough to swing the vote, unfortunately.

[Medea Fleecestealer]

Juncker being sued for gagging informal Brexit talks.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37586587

[Reb77Br]

The above Twitter reference has been picked up by The Guardian.

Government bars foreign academics from advising on Brexit

"Leading foreign academics acting as expert advisers to the UK government have been told they will not be asked to contribute to any government analysis and reports on Brexit because they are not British nationals. ...

The Foreign Office was said to be concerned about the risk of sensitive material being exposed as article 50 negotiations over Britain’s exit from the EU, and subsequent talks on its future trade and other relations with the bloc, got under way."

Britain becomes "outward-looking"!

[Urs Max]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Rather cemented both in name only, in practice the common market had been around for far longer since 1993.

Border controls were still in place, there was no guarantee that transporters wouldn't be held up at the border, foreigners had no right to residence. Neither FMOP nor EEA as it's known now.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Rather cemented both in name only, in practice the common market had been around for far longer since 1993.

I remember the date by this...

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	Phos
	The UK joined to access the market. Afterwards came Maastricht and Lisbon. It turned out there was more than met the eye at the time of joining. Some saw this as encroachment, worse an EU deception. Brexit was only a proper referendum to hold.

The UK approved all treaties and changes in accordance with their national law, so what is the point you are trying to make???

[marton]

	Quote:	Reb77Br
	The above Twitter reference has been picked up by The Guardian. Government bars foreign academics from advising on Brexit "Leading foreign academics acting as expert advisers to the UK government have been told they will not be asked to contribute to any government analysis and reports on Brexit because they are not British nationals. ... The Foreign Office was said to be concerned about the risk of sensitive material being exposed as article 50 negotiations over Britain’s exit from the EU, and subsequent talks on its future trade and other relations with the bloc, got under way." Britain becomes "outward-looking"!

Pathetic!

Like nobody knows what the UK negotiating position is "Please EU be nice to us and let us off being part of FMOP and stop us having to pay into the EU"

Some foreigners reactions to our new Home Secretary here.

But according to yougov 59% of UK people support firms reporting how many foreigners work there so I suppose we should be happy not to live there?

	Quote:	marton
	But according to yougov 59% of UK people support firms reporting how many foreigners work there so I suppose we should be happy not to live there?

...And live in a country where every foreigner has to carry an ID, where it's acceptable to report the foreigner's nationality when reporting crime stories in newspapers, where quotas are made on the number of resident permits handed out to foreigners, and oh, where companies have to report on how many foreigners are working there.