The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[TobiasM]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	If the EU are sensible with their negotiations, they'd let the UK can remain in the single market whilst allowing them to impose quotas on immigration. This would be a solution that would keep all sides happy, and it's something Remainers should be speaking up for. The only issue in all this is that the EU isn't sensible.

Why would it be sensible, what has Britain got to offer? The EU are gonna stiff Britain good and proper, and rightly so, it was an idiotic referendum based on lies and deceit and it showed how ignorant and misinformed the British populace actually is. The EU is a whole lot more sensible then your hero's Farage and Johnson actually are. Trade within the EU is going to go favourably to those that are in the EU. We already controlled our immigration against those foreigners you fear so much, the ones from outside the EU, and the ones inside the EU were actually a benefit to the system not a hinderance or a drain. I am so sick of reading your backwards statements, really, you keep jib jabbing on and on and on....

	Quote:	TobiasM
	I am so sick of reading your backwards statements...

	Quote:	TobiasM
	...it was an idiotic referendum based on lies and deceit and it showed how ignorant and misinformed the British populace actually is.

Quite.

Brexit because British people stupid. Lol.

[Mikers]

	Quote:	TobiasM
	Why would it be sensible, what has Britain got to offer? The EU are gonna stiff Britain good and proper, and rightly so, it was an idiotic referendum based on lies and deceit and it showed how ignorant and misinformed the British populace actually is. The EU is a whole lot more sensible then your hero's Farage and Johnson actually are. Trade within the EU is going to go favourably to those that are in the EU. We already controlled our immigration against those foreigners you fear so much, the ones from outside the EU, and the ones inside the EU were actually a benefit to the system not a hinderance or a drain. I am so sick of reading your backwards statements, really, you keep jib jabbing on and on and on....

Economics always win over ranting doll throwing. Britain is a powerful economy and the world wants to do business with it.

[marton]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	...where every foreigner has to carry an ID, where it's acceptable to report the foreigner's nationality when reporting crime stories in newspapers, where quotas are made on the number of resident permits handed out to foreigners, and oh, where companies have to report on how many foreigners are working there.

Entering a country where you know the rules is in advance is rather different than having a country change around around you.

When you write "And live in a country.... " Which country are you referring to?
If you want to write rubbish that is OK with me but do please try to explain your points in more detail.

In Switzerland

• no foreigner is obliged to carry an ID
• There are no permit quotas
• companies do not have to report on how many foreigners are working there

[marton]

	Quote:	Mikers
	Britain is a powerful economy and the world wants to do business with it.

Source? .....

[TobiasM]

	Quote:	marton
	Source? .....

The source of "I am dreaming that anyone outside Britain actually gives a flying f about what happens to Britain", aside from external property investors. Britain has little natural resource left, its foot in International/European scientific research is over as we left the EU nobody wants to be partners with us. Britain is quite despised by all its Commonwealth countries, they'll split now there is no EU membership.

I could go on but why? The idiocy is the Brexiters who truly believe that its going to pan out well in the end. Yeah sure if every member of the EU just patted us on the back and said, "well at least you tried but fair enough didn't like it, oh but if you feel like it you can play with us again, we miss you" ....

[TobiasM]

	Quote:	marton
	In Switzerland no foreigner is obliged to carry an ID There are no permit quotas companies do not have to report on how many foreigners are working there

I am not sure about that Marton, although I like the sentiment. I am obliged, although never do, to carry my Auslanderthingymajig permit and some identification. Because I am white, I would probably just be told off for not having it.

[Mikers]

	Quote:	TobiasM
	The source of "I am dreaming that anyone outside Britain actually gives a flying f about what happens to Britain", aside from external property investors. Britain has little natural resource left, its foot in International/European scientific research is over as we left the EU nobody wants to be partners with us. Britain is quite despised by all its Commonwealth countries, they'll split now there is no EU membership. I could go on but why? The idiocy is the Brexiters who truly believe that its going to pan out well in the end. Yeah sure if every member of the EU just patted us on the back and said, "well at least you tried but fair enough didn't like it, oh but if you feel like it you can play with us again, we miss you" ....

Britain has a strong financial services sector and service industry for a start. What matters is real negotiation and facts. Emotional statements of anger or opinion won't Bear on the trading agreements in the end, it's what is financially best that matters.

	Quote:	TobiasM
	Why would it be sensible, what has Britain got to offer? The EU are gonna stiff Britain good and proper, and rightly so, it was an idiotic referendum based on lies and deceit and it showed how ignorant and misinformed the British populace actually is. The EU is a whole lot more sensible then your hero's Farage and Johnson actually are. Trade within the EU is going to go favourably to those that are in the EU. We already controlled our immigration against those foreigners you fear so much, the ones from outside the EU, and the ones inside the EU were actually a benefit to the system not a hinderance or a drain. I am so sick of reading your backwards statements, really, you keep jib jabbing on and on and on....

The ignore list is the easiest way to deal with it. Until someone quotes it and it's back up there.

As for the answer, there's one very simple reason the EU have no choice but to be tough. Imagine the Swiss and Norwegian response if the UK gets single market access without paying in and without FMOP. There is no way the EU can ever relax on that requirement.

Similarly they're never going to get/retain the financial services passport. Something the City is, I think, now slowly realising.

[Mikers]

	Quote:
	The ignore list is the easiest way to deal with it. Until someone quotes it and it's back up there. As for the answer, there's one very simple reason the EU have no choice but to be tough. Imagine the Swiss and Norwegian response if the UK gets single market access without paying in and without FMOP. There is no way the EU can ever relax on that requirement. Similarly they're never going to get/retain the financial services passport. Something the City is, I think, now slowly realising.

I think it'll be chopped up as they've suggested. Passporting perhaps yes, single market no, automotive industry probably yes something tariff free etc etc

	Quote:	Reb77Br
	The above Twitter reference has been picked up by The Guardian. Government bars foreign academics from advising on Brexit "Leading foreign academics acting as expert advisers to the UK government have been told they will not be asked to contribute to any government analysis and reports on Brexit because they are not British nationals. ... The Foreign Office was said to be concerned about the risk of sensitive material being exposed as article 50 negotiations over Britain’s exit from the EU, and subsequent talks on its future trade and other relations with the bloc, got under way." Britain becomes "outward-looking"!

The comments, they're OUTRAGED!

Just wait until they learn that you have to hold a British passport to work for the AWE, areas of the MOD, MI5, the UK armed forces, border force...

[TobiasM]

	Quote:
	The ignore list is the easiest way to deal with it. Until someone quotes it and it's back up there.

True, but that is how filter bubbles form, so I would happily think everybody agreed with me, until someone quotes something back, but I missed the whole thrust of the debate and more importantly I also wouldn't be able to reply with faux or real outrage

[TobiasM]

	Quote:	Mikers
	Britain has a strong financial services sector and service industry for a start. What matters is real negotiation and facts. Emotional statements of anger or opinion won't Bear on the trading agreements in the end, it's what is financially best that matters.

You do realise that all of that industry can fairly easily relocate. A lot of international financial institutions are planning on relocating their European headquarters back into the heart of the EU. We'll see what really happens in March of next year, but personally and from everything I have read so far, it doesn't appear to be a pretty picture for London and thats where it matters in the UK.

The thing is the populace of the UK will scream unfair at the EU once the post Brexit trade negotiations are done, it won't be to the UKs liking, but what did we expect, to receive preferential treatment over other non EU countries? I don't think so.

[marton]

	Quote:	Mikers
	I think it'll be chopped up as they've suggested. Passporting perhaps yes, single market no, automotive industry probably yes something tariff free etc etc

Passporting?

With the EU looking at a potential loss of 10% of their exports then other easy opportunities like expanding financial services will look attractive, such services could easily be provided from Frankfurt, Paris, Dublin and Luxembourg.

Automotive industry would certainly be a good opportunity for an UK compromise.

[Mikers]

	Quote:	TobiasM
	You do realise that all of that industry can fairly easily relocate. A lot of international financial institutions are planning on relocating their European headquarters back into the heart of the EU. We'll see what really happens in March of next year, but personally and from everything I have read so far, it doesn't appear to be a pretty picture for London and thats where it matters in the UK. The thing is the populace of the UK will scream unfair at the EU once the post Brexit trade negotiations are done, it won't be to the UKs liking, but what did we expect, to receive preferential treatment over other non EU countries? I don't think so.

Yes of course and it will end one of the key points. If the financial firms move to frankfurt or Paris then the UK is definitely in a lot of trouble. But I don't think that will become clear until the negotiations start, the 'the uk's had it' line is rubbish but so is the 'the UK is going to power forward'. The UK has a powerful economy with which all nations will want to do business. The eu is a political project not an economy. We must wait and see how it pans out.

	Quote:	Mikers
	Britain has a strong financial services sector and service industry for a start. What matters is real negotiation and facts. Emotional statements of anger or opinion won't Bear on the trading agreements in the end, it's what is financially best that matters.

Yes some of my very close relatives work in the City - in very senior positions. I wonder why they are all planning their exit - some of them to Switzerland (which for me would be the only silver lining ...). They are planning NOW- behind the scenes - and are not waiting to see 'how it will pan out' ...

[marton]

	Quote:	Mikers
	Yes of course and it will end one of the key points. If the financial firms move to frankfurt or Paris then the UK is definitely in a lot of trouble. But I don't think that will become clear until the negotiations start, the 'the uk's had it' line is rubbish but so is the 'the UK is going to power forward'. The UK has a powerful economy with which all nations will want to do business. The eu is a political project not an economy. We must wait and see how it pans out.

"The eu is a political project not an economy. "
The EU was created in the aftermath of the Second World War. The first steps were to foster economic cooperation: the idea being that countries that trade with one another become economically interdependent and so more likely to avoid conflict.

It is exactly your false view that it is a political project that caused this debacle!

	Quote:	marton
	"The eu is a political project not an economy. " The EU was created in the aftermath of the Second World War. The first steps were to foster economic cooperation: the idea being that countries that trade with one another become economically interdependent and so more likely to avoid conflict. It is exactly your false view that it is a political project that caused this debacle!

It is not false. It is and always was a political project, right from the start.

That's why I voted "out".

[Mikers]

	Quote:	marton
	"The eu is a political project not an economy. " The EU was created in the aftermath of the Second World War. The first steps were to foster economic cooperation: the idea being that countries that trade with one another become economically interdependent and so more likely to avoid conflict. It is exactly your false view that it is a political project that caused this debacle!

It's an idea. Not an economy.

[Pachyderm]

	Quote:	marton
	"The eu is a political project not an economy. " The EU was created in the aftermath of the Second World War. The first steps were to foster economic cooperation: the idea being that countries that trade with one another become economically interdependent and so more likely to avoid conflict. It is exactly your false view that it is a political project that caused this debacle!

Strange view. Of course there are, or can be, economic benefits, but the EU has always been fundamentally political. As you yourself say, the idea appeared in the aftermath of WW2, which was a cataclysmic failure of politics. Even the original Treaty of Rome mentions "ever closer union".

That said, I didn't mind the EEC when the emphasis had switched towards economic cooperation. Free trade and free movement is absolutely fine when it's a small group of economically homogenous nations, as it was in hte 70s. France, Germany Holland, Belgium, UK, Italy. Free movement worked because we could rub along together, economically.

Then came the 90s, with the notorious Jaques Delors and others, who flicked a switch in the collective brain, and began preaching the Word of Federalism. This is where the political ideology returned, with the vision of the European superstate, hoovering up the old Eastern bloc countries. Currency union is all about politics as well as economics.

With expansion to include much weaker economies, free movement began to fail, and to actually weaken the union. There is nothing better than Brexit to illustrate the dire consequences of turning the old Common Market into an ideological playground.