The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[amogles]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	On the contrary it would be possible for Ni to remain part of the UK while entering a customs union with Ireland.... we already have precedence for it. The real problem is the Spain would most likely demand the same for Gibraltar and no doubt the SNP would be looking for something similar.

So far, at least in recent decades, if Gibraltar has been cut off from Spain, the obstruction was largely of Spanish making, not of British. Not being allowed to obstruct the border would deprive Spain of a valuable means of annoying the British. I don't think they would want that.

[marton]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	And that would be a catalyst for them to invoke the GFA and start up the whole tourist thing again.

and talking about GFA "The former taoiseach John Bruton recently warned of the “incalculable consequences” that Brexit would have on trade.

“The underlying assumption of the Good Friday agreement … was that both parts of Ireland would be included in a zone of free movement of goods and people, an assumption that is in the process of being unilaterally reversed by the UK side’s decision to leave that zone. Brexit will thus devastate trade flows, and human contact, within Ireland, with incalculable consequences,” he said"

Source

[lewton]

Why doesn't Ireland leave the EU too in order to preserve the free movement between the Republic and the UK?
This way they could also avoid having to make Apple pay.

[Britething]

Not sure if this has been discussed on this thread, but is anyone else in the process of asking for another European nationality or thinking about it?

Brexit was the most profound shock to me, I absolutely didn't see it coming. After having lived abroad for more than 15 years, I was not entitled to my say in the matter, despite being British born to British parents. This was a disgraceful state of affairs for many expats.

Just putting this out there, as I read there has been massive demand for Irish nationality, amongst others.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	lewton
	Why doesn't Ireland leave the EU too in order to preserve the free movement between the Republic and the UK? This way they could also avoid having to make Apple pay.

Why would they, the UK represents about 16% of their exports and Belgium is on the verge of overtaking the UK, while the EU in total represents 60% of their exports.

Unlike the UK, Ireland has produced a positive balance of trade for a long time and as part of the Euro Group, like Germany, they benefit greatly from being able to trade in what for them is an under valued currency (exports accounted for about half (48%) of total Irish economic output).

Irish voters are by and large pro EU, yes there are critics, but because they are required to vote on treaty changes etc. there is not the sense of alienation that is common in the UK. And clearly in social media, news papers, politicians etc... the mind set is "how do we deal with the UK after the exit" not "do we join them".

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	Britething
	Not sure if this has been discussed on this thread, but is anyone else in the process of asking for another European nationality or thinking about it?

Friends in Spain are in the process of applying. As for the 15yr rule, it looks as if that could all be about to change...

	Quote:
	The government has published details of plans to scrap the 15-year limit on expats' right to vote in UK general elections. Constitution Minister Chris Skidmore said the "votes for life" would allow British citizens who have moved abroad to participate in British democracy. It follows a long campaign waged by World War Two veteran Harry Shindler. Mr Shindler, 95, told the BBC: "It seems the government are moving [on this] and that's good." The government said the policy would need to work for five million overseas British citizens and should be in place in time for the next general election, due in 2020.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37584527

[NomadAmericano]

My EU passport was always checked in GB after flying from Ireland. I don't recall it being checked when I took the ferry.

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Friends in Spain are in the process of applying. As for the 15yr rule, it looks as if that could all be about to change... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37584527

I know others who are applying in Spain. And as Spain doesn't allow dual nationality, that means they are prepared to lose UK one.

My grandkids were quickly by adult children to get Swiss nationality days after Brexit- and sil has applied for facilitated naturalisation.

[amogles]

	Quote:
	I know others who are applying in Spain. And as Spain doesn't allow dual nationality, that means they are prepared to lose UK one.

But Spain also sells residencies. I think the minimum condition is that you own a property there. Lots of Chinese are doing that now. And seeing you can pick up an at-heel appartment in an undesirable neighbourhood for well under 10K, many are doing that and renting it out. If you have a residency in one EU country you can settle in any other EU country.

[amogles]

	Quote:	Britething
	Not sure if this has been discussed on this thread, but is anyone else in the process of asking for another European nationality or thinking about it?

Check your spam folder.

I'm getting plenty of dodgy stuff from people who want to sell me a EU passport.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	amogles
	If you have a residency in one EU country you can settle in any other EU country.

Really now is that an opinion or have you got an actual reference for it?????????

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	Really now is that an opinion or have you got an actual reference for it?????????

To be fair, his entire post was bow larks. My mate's can only get a Spanish passport because they've lived and worked there for 10yrs, own property there, and have raised a shed load of money for Spanish charities.

But back on Mud Island, this is the kind of mentality I'm dealing with on a near daily basis, particularly when trying to employ people to work on my house refurb. I've spent the last week chasing tradesmen for dates when work can be done, revised quotes for a higher spec product, and even had one company that hold the Queen's crest send over a CAD design for approval and then refuse to quote for the work. They'll all be getting the sharp end of my tongue on Monday morning, and we'll see who doesn't understand 5 figure sums being taken elsewhere! I know it's small potatoes to some, but if that's how they choose to treat cash customers...screw 'em!

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenter...ard-to-losing/

[Reb77Br]

"Mud Island" Good one!

	Quote:	Blueangel
	http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenter...ard-to-losing/

There was apparently another LBC phone-in on whether parliament should have a say on Brexit that was dominated by Brexit supporters saying "no".
https://www.facebook.com/Reasons2Rem...7114388647937/

[marton]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	It appears that Ms. May has already decided the outcome... Access to the single market requires acceptance of European court decisions on single market issues and FMOP. Refusal to accept these requirements means there is nothing to negotiate about. The idea of a country accessing the market and not being subject to it's legal requirements is not going to fly and nor are changes to FMOP without a treaty change.

"Access to the single market requires acceptance of European court decisions" Well sometimes it is good to have an independent review. For example, last year the court annulled a policy by the European Central Bank that would have required British companies managing financial trades in euros to relocate to the eurozone. Of course, next time the ECB try this we will not be able to go to this court

Matter of interest what decisions by this court do EFers think were bad for the UK?

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	Reb77Br
	"Mud Island" Good one!

Apparently, it's the Saffa term for the UK. Ungrateful buggers, especially when we've given them bar work for years! That remark will get me in sooo much poop with the OH.

	Quote:	marton
	Matter of interest what decisions by this court do EFers think were bad for the UK?

Which European court exactly?

You know that is a blanket term that requires absolute definition as some courts are part of the EU and some aren't.

Specifically with regards to pre-Brexit propaganda, it was the ECJ (EU) and ECtHR (non EU) decisions regarding Abu Hamza that stuck in the public craw and consciousness. As it was the latter that repeatedly blocked Hamza's extradition to the US, it was a non EU court decision, but try explaining that to the man on the street!

We have a very recent and fine example of this confusion in the mind of the populous, and how the reporting of this is massively distorted in the media. These stories were published on the same day regarding the same court decision. When I court decision can be reported in such different ways, how is your average joe going to know what to believe?

	Quote:
	Britain cannot automatically deport Abu Hamza’s daughter-in-law despite her criminality, ECJ judgment says

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...hter-in-law-d/

	Quote:
	UK can decide whether to deport Abu Hamza relative, EU court says European court of justice says decision over daughter-in-law of radical cleric should be taken by British judges

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2016...-eu-court-says

[Medea Fleecestealer]

Now they're suggesting the UK will have to pay to access the single market.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-37627308

Not going to happen because the EU is clear - no FMOP = no single market. Get it through your heads people and forget access to the single market. Ain't going to happen.

[marton]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Apparently, it's the Saffa term for the UK. Ungrateful buggers, especially when we've given them bar work for years! That remark will get me in sooo much poop with the OH. Which European court exactly? You know that is a blanket term that requires absolute definition as some courts are part of the EU and some aren't. Specifically with regards to pre-Brexit propaganda, it was the ECJ (EU) and ECtHR (non EU) decisions regarding Abu Hamza that stuck in the public craw and consciousness. As it was the latter that repeatedly blocked Hamza's extradition to the US, it was a non EU court decision, but try explaining that to the man on the street! We have a very recent and fine example of this confusion in the mind of the populous, and how the reporting of this is massively distorted in the media. These stories were published on the same day regarding the same court decision. When I court decision can be reported in such different ways, how is your average joe going to know what to believe? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...hter-in-law-d/ https://www.theguardian.com/law/2016...-eu-court-says

"Which European court exactly? " I know many people (even here) get confused between the two courts.
I thought it was clear when I wrote "Access to the single market requires acceptance of European court decisions" so I was referring to the ECJ.
The single market and the ECHR are not linked; but maybe I should have also written ECJ.

Anyway my question stands; so which are the ECJ decisions that upset people.

For those at the back of the class, the ECHR (European court of Human rights)is nothing to do with the EU and after Brexit we will still "benefit" from its decisions.

[marton]

	Quote:	marton
	Sadly May and her circus of "turf fighters" are unable to define and stay with a policy for more than five minutes. The latest PR disaster is "The government has abandoned plans to force businesses to reveal how many foreign staff they employ, following widespread condemnation and accusations that the policy was akin to tattooing workers “with numbers on their forearms”." Source Do we really have no one better than this bunch of clowns to negotiate Brexit for us? Maybe it is a clever plan to lull the EU into believing the negotiators are idiots? Anyone remember Black Adder?

Strange day today.

Some newspapers today are claiming that May will now allow a Parliament debate before Art. 50 is invoked. I am getting to the stage where I do not care any more what the Tory Party does but it would be nice if they stuck with any policy decision for more than five minutes. Source

Tesco are claiming they will ban Unilever products from their shelves (including Marmite ) because Unilever are seeking a 10% price increase due to currency. Source.

The ft is claiming that UK faces a £20Bn divorce bill to leave the EU

Meanwhile if you still believe Britain will get a sweet deal out of Brexit because “the EU needs the UK more than vice versa”, ask yourself: why don’t we hear European politicians pleading with Britain “not to punish the EU over Brexit”?
Source

As for “punishing” the UK, the EU has far too much on its plate to indulge in punitive expeditions. It will defend its national and continental interests with as much vigour as Britain will. And, since the EU is more than seven times bigger, it will impose its will.

Whatever the political darlings of the billionaire-owned British press tell themselves and their followers, Brexit will mean what the EU decides it means.

Dominic Grieve, a former attorney general, said there were likely to be economic risks and a “legal nightmare” caused by Brexit, as he argued there was a longstanding convention that major treaty changes must be approved by parliament rather than royal prerogative.

[marton]

Even the Telegraph is getting worried! "Parliament must not prevent Brexit', says David Davis amid growing unrest in the Conservative Party as pro-Europe Tories side with Labour and SNP MPs"

Source

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	marton
	Strange day today. Some newspapers today are claiming that May will now allow a Parliament debate before Art. 50 is invoked. I am getting to the stage where I do not care any more what the Tory Party does but it would be nice if they stuck with any policy decision for more than five minutes. Source

Besides Corbyn making me scream at the tv within 2mins of opening his stupid gob during PMQs, did you watch the Brexit Debate afterwards?

Keir Starmer was well intentioned but rather lame and crumbled under the barrage from David Davis. You'd think for such an important debate, that more MPs would stay on for it, particularly straight after PMQs.

In the fb debate about it with my mates, one of them (who works 2mins from the House) seriously considered turning up to the debate to "make up the numbers", but we couldn't decide which tins he should take to pass the time.