The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[marton]

	Quote:
	So, with all this resolute faith in democracy in the UK, I think we can confidently and unequivocally say that Brexit voters would have shut up and put up with a result had it not gone in their favour. Am I right? Whatever anyone says, or reads in their chosen piece of trash / high brow / mainstream / social media - immigration was one of the main topics which made the minds up of a whopping segment of voters. Yes, there were other factors including these mysterious laws that the UK can now "take control" of but anyone who thinks immigration didn't play a major role is deluding themselves.

"these mysterious laws that the UK can now "take control"" It is incredible how many Leavers cannot name specific laws they object to? Also incredible how many object to the European Court of Justice but cannot quote any decisions?

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	George Osbourne promised a yes to BREXIT would cause stealing to fall 20% & falls in house prices I think the remain voters realised how attractive this was to many people, especially the parent's of adult children living at home. Add some inflation & Britons debt would look more manageable, every cloud has a silver lining.

With jobs already going, crap interest rates on savings, and many mortgage lenders insisting on bigger deposits, the situation there isn't going to change much. The only way to stimulate the housing market is to build new homes, which is pretty thin on the ground.

I got the train through my old stomping ground, Manchester city centre, on Saturday. Plenty of new building going on there, but it's mainly office blocks or his rise 'luxury' apartments with flimsy looking balconies up to the 16th floor. I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole and I'm pretty sure they'll be out of reach to many younger buyers.

Add to all that, the Government's 'Help To Buy Scheme' is scheduled to end on 31 December 2016. I wonder which bright spark though that decision would stimulate the housing market.

http://www.moneysupermarket.com/mort...to-buy-scheme/

[Sbrinz]

	Quote:	marton
	.. snip .. I do not really understand this? How will the UK be forced to apply import tariffs especially when we are not yet WTO members? Hopefully somebody here can explain, please?

The UK and the EU countries have been members of the WTO since its creation (from GATT) on 1st January 1995

https://www.wto.org/english/thewto_e...f_e/org6_e.htm

No I cannot explain the odd statements coming from newspapers, they seem to print anything they like, and everyone believes them.

[marton]

	Quote:	Sbrinz
	The UK and the EU countries have been members of the WTO since its creation (from GATT) on 1st January 1995 https://www.wto.org/english/thewto_e...f_e/org6_e.htm No I cannot explain the odd statements coming from newspapers, they seem to print anything they like, and everyone believes them.

Today the UK is a WTO member as a part of the EU.
In practice, the UK would have to detach itself from the EU and regularise its position within the WTO before it could sign its own trade agreements, including with the EU.

As Roberto Azevêdo, the WTO’s director-general, said recently, there is no precedent for a WTO member extricating itself from an economic union while inside the organisation.

The process would not be easy and would likely take years before the UK’s WTO position was settled, not least because all other member states would have to agree.

[Sbrinz]

The UK is a WTO member in its own right,

The European Union and the WTO
This page gathers key information on the European Union’s participation in the WTO. The European Union (until 30 November 2009 known officially in the WTO as the European Communities for legal reasons) (more info) has been a WTO member since 1 January 1995. The 28 member States of the EU are also WTO members in their own right. The EU is a single customs union with a single trade policy and tariff. The European Commission — the EU’s executive arm — speaks for all EU member States at almost all WTO meetings.

from the WTO website https://www.wto.org/english/thewto_e...munities_e.htm

Austria should cancel EU Treaty (German only)

Will Italy Leave the EU? Follow the Money

[marton]

	Quote:	Sbrinz
	The UK is a WTO member in its own right, The European Union and the WTO This page gathers key information on the European Union’s participation in the WTO. The European Union (until 30 November 2009 known officially in the WTO as the European Communities for legal reasons) (more info) has been a WTO member since 1 January 1995. The 28 member States of the EU are also WTO members in their own right. The EU is a single customs union with a single trade policy and tariff. The European Commission — the EU’s executive arm — speaks for all EU member States at almost all WTO meetings. from the WTO website https://www.wto.org/english/thewto_e...munities_e.htm

So Roberto Azevêdo, the WTO’s director-general does not understand what he is talking about

[Urs Max]

	Quote:	Sbrinz
	The UK is a WTO member in its own right,

But apparently the agreements with the other countries only appliy to UK as an EU member, not standalone.

[marton]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Austria should cancel EU Treaty (German only) Will Italy Leave the EU? Follow the Money

Actually the proposal in your link is for the Austrians to change the voting rules that were changed in the European Maastricht Treaty; they are not proposing to leave the EU

	Quote:	Urs Max
	Japan's letter is the first time a clear list of requirements has been published by a major player. I think it's well worth the read, find it here. According to that PDF, Japan firms provide 440k jobs in the EU, half their capital investments in 2015 went to the UK. No longer getting the share it previously did would hurt the UK enough to be visible on a national level, not to mention the message that would send to the rest of the world. The bullet points are as follows: [Requests directed at the UK and the EU] ・ maintenance of the current tariff rates and customs clearance procedures; ・ introduction of provisions for cumulative rules of origin; ・ maintenance of the access to workers who are nationals of the UK or the EU; ・ maintenance of the freedom of establishment and the provision of financial services, including the “single passport” system; ・ maintenance of the freedom of cross-border investment and the provision of services as well as the free movement of capital, including that between associated companies; ・ maintenance of the current level of information protection and the free transfer of data; ・ unified protection of intellectual property rights; ・ maintenance of harmonisation of the regulations and standards between the UK and the EU (including the maintenance of established frameworks of mutual recognition and equivalence); ・ securing the UK’s function as a clearing centre for the euro and the location within the UK of EU agencies such as the European Medicines Agency (EMA); and ・ maintenance of the UK’s access to the EU budget for research and development and participation in the Japan-EU joint research project. [Additional requests directed at the UK] ・ liberalisation of trade in goods without the burdens of customs duties and procedures; ・ maintenance of access to workers with the necessary skills; ・ maintenance of basic policies regarding the entry of foreign capital; ・ implementation of measures to promote investment; ・ maintenance of the current levels of information protection and the free transfer of datain case the UK establishes its own legislation distinct from the EU’s; ・ ensuring the consistency of regulations and standards between the UK and the EU; and ・ ensuring that the EU’s research and development budget applies to research institutions in the UK. [Additional request directed at the EU] ・ provision of transitional arrangements for the single passporting system

Nice that Japan care. But they'd be better off worrying about the demographic time bomb will eventually decimate their economy. Half the population just stopped having sex. What's that all about?!

	Quote:	marton
	Actually the proposal in your link is for the Austrians to change the voting rules that were changed in the European Maastricht Treaty; they are not proposing to leave the EU

It's one economist's opinion, that's all. He makes sense though.

[marton]

Only in Manchester "A man died just hours after he was brutally beaten and threatened with being set alight by his neighbour, who was angry with him for having voted for Brexit"

"the consultant pathologist has concluded his death was due to matters unrelated to the assault.”

Source

[Urs Max]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Nice that Japan care. But they'd be better off worrying about the demographic time bomb will eventually decimate their economy. Half the population just stopped having sex. What's that all about?!

And what's that got to do with the price of fish?

[Odile]

	Quote:
	I can't, thanks to EU FMOP rules. I married a non-EU person, you see, and they have to cut immigration somewhere. But thanks for the suggestion.

Does the £18.600 rule not apply? As a teacher with about 20 years experience and UK qualifications, you'd earn significantly more, no ? And nought for kids that have UK nationality.

[marton]

	Quote:	Odile
	Does the £18.000 rule not apply? As a teacher with about 20 years experience and UK qualifications, you'd earn significantly more, no ?

Immigration to UK when your partner is not British is rather tedious. It was easier when you had an EU partner but since Brexit there are no guarantees.

Probably better if you have a Swiss partner because their bi-lateral treaties are clear that if the treaties are cancelled then people retain their rights.
I suppose this treaty will be cancelled by Art. 50.3 like the others

[Odile]

At present, current rules apply. You need to earn a minimum of £18.600 a year- more if you have kids who are non UK nationals.

[marton]

	Quote:	Odile
	At present, current rules apply. You need to earn a minimum of £18.600 a year- more if you have kids who are non UK nationals.

So far as I understand the partner only gets an initial visa for 33 months and then has to apply again when that runs out for a 30 months visa and then after 5 years for permanent visa, but the subsequent applications will be after Brexit so who knows what the rules will be?

[Reb77Br]

Tory Councillor Christian Holliday Holds Petition To Make Supporting UK Membership Of EU Treason

And is roundly condemned by the prime minister… er… wait a minute...

"Asked if Theresa May supported the view that those who wanted to stay in the EU should be guilty of treason, her official spokeswoman said: “Different people will chose their words differently. The Prime Minister is very clear that the British people have made their decision.”"

[marton]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	What a bed wetter. Imagine him in the blitz. It wouldn't. Leave would win again, and with a bigger margin. Despite the daily output of lip quivering opinion pieces in the Grauniad. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...jority-8283139 Sovereignty was the main reason that people voted leave not immigration. See link above. Remainers always want to make this about immigration. But but, won't the EU ride in on a great white horse and save the day for Ireland? It's a good thing the UK doesn't produce cheese or chocolate. Funny that this is being led by Clegg and Miliband, who's biggest claim to fame is the complete destruction of their respective parties.

"Despite the daily output of lip quivering opinion pieces in the Grauniad." Weren't you the one recently lecturing us about the need for freedom of speech and freedom of expression? Look here

	Quote:	marton
	"Despite the daily output of lip quivering opinion pieces in the Grauniad." Weren't you the one recently lecturing us about the need for freedom of speech and freedom of expression? Look here

And where have I said they should be silenced?