Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Off-Topic > Off-Topic > International affairs/politics  
View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #6081  
Old 24.10.2016, 12:24
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 7,738
Groaned at 262 Times in 225 Posts
Thanked 9,288 Times in 4,888 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
The UK is the second largest net contributor behind Germany. There are only 10 members that contribute to the EU more than what they take out. The EU is going to have to plug this hole somehow.
Sure. I have no doubt the remaining members aren't happy about it at all, one more reason for them to not make unnecessary concessions. If however by some mirace UK gets some kind of deal that gives free EEA access the hole will be filled by the UK itself, upon which Leavers are virtually guaranteed to complain about EU being stubborn and unreasonable.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Urs Max for this useful post:
  #6082  
Old 24.10.2016, 15:40
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Geneva
Posts: 692
Groaned at 49 Times in 34 Posts
Thanked 1,097 Times in 632 Posts
Reb77Br has a reputation beyond reputeReb77Br has a reputation beyond reputeReb77Br has a reputation beyond reputeReb77Br has a reputation beyond reputeReb77Br has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

A very vocally pro-Brexit audience on the most recent Question Time from Hartlepool. The audience from Boston was mild by comparison. Towards the end (around 48:30) a Polish woman in the audience said she felt unwelcome as a result of the Brexit vote, and was shouted at and booed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5r8yQ8sz14

Newsnight recently did a report about a Syrian refugee family living in Newcastle who said they'd had a worse time in the UK than they had had in Syria, as their 14-year-old son had been falsely accused of sexual assault (tried and acquitted). Their theory was that the teenage girls who made the accusations had been motivated by a dislike of foreigners, but the BBC pointed out that this had not been confirmed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofqU-Tq0J5c
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Reb77Br for this useful post:
  #6083  
Old 24.10.2016, 16:27
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
A very vocally pro-Brexit audience on the most recent Question Time from Hartlepool. The audience from Boston was mild by comparison. Towards the end (around 48:30) a Polish woman in the audience said she felt unwelcome as a result of the Brexit vote, and was shouted at and booed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5r8yQ8sz14

Newsnight recently did a report about a Syrian refugee family living in Newcastle who said they'd had a worse time in the UK than they had had in Syria, as their 14-year-old son had been falsely accused of sexual assault (tried and acquitted). Their theory was that the teenage girls who made the accusations had been motivated by a dislike of foreigners, but the BBC pointed out that this had not been confirmed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofqU-Tq0J5c
When you accuse over half the country of being bigots that's the response you're going to get.

The other story is neither here nor there.
Reply With Quote
  #6084  
Old 24.10.2016, 16:38
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Vaud
Posts: 2,495
Groaned at 149 Times in 102 Posts
Thanked 4,352 Times in 1,668 Posts
Mikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond reputeMikers has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Sure. I have no doubt the remaining members aren't happy about it at all, one more reason for them to not make unnecessary concessions. If however by some mirace UK gets some kind of deal that gives free EEA access the hole will be filled by the UK itself, upon which Leavers are virtually guaranteed to complain about EU being stubborn and unreasonable.
I think in the end common sense will prevail myself. Amidst all the bravado I think everyone wants the best deal for all so after all the hoo haa in the end some kind of deal involving the trade level everyone wants and a movement of people deal everyone will accept will arrive.

Might end in disaster though, with economic doom but mr junckner saying 'there! I told you not to leave!' In a victorious voice!
Reply With Quote
  #6085  
Old 24.10.2016, 16:42
Jim2007's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Kt. Bern
Posts: 4,352
Groaned at 117 Times in 100 Posts
Thanked 5,147 Times in 2,435 Posts
Jim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
You are wrong. Article 50. exit negotiations will be decided by qualified majority voting, there can be no single veto.
Well only after the parliament agrees to it and the exit agreement does not include treaty changes nor international agreements - trade agreements for instance.
Reply With Quote
  #6086  
Old 24.10.2016, 17:09
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Neuchatel
Posts: 23,042
Groaned at 553 Times in 424 Posts
Thanked 25,549 Times in 11,729 Posts
Odile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond reputeOdile has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Have you bothered to read what Article 50 actually says !?!

There are five elements to Article 50 of the Treaty of Lisbon:

Any Member State may decide to withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements.

A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.

The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.

For the purposes of paragraphs 2 and 3, the member of the European Council or of the Council representing the withdrawing Member State shall not participate in the discussions of the European Council or Council or in decisions concerning it. A qualified majority shall be defined in accordance with Article 238(3)(b) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union.

If a State which has withdrawn from the Union asks to rejoin, its request shall be subject to the procedure referred to in Article 49.
Reply With Quote
  #6087  
Old 24.10.2016, 17:35
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 10,692
Groaned at 356 Times in 307 Posts
Thanked 14,165 Times in 7,780 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

IT companies always have the fastest reactions
"Microsoft raises UK software prices between 13% and 20% after Brexit weighs on pound .
US technology group follows Dell and Apple (ca. 10%) with post-Brexit vote increases."

Source
Reply With Quote
  #6088  
Old 24.10.2016, 19:19
Jim2007's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Kt. Bern
Posts: 4,352
Groaned at 117 Times in 100 Posts
Thanked 5,147 Times in 2,435 Posts
Jim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Have you bothered to read what Article 50 actually says !?
Yep I sure did and there is nothing in there obliging the EU to include a traded deal nor a change to the treaty in any way.

Quote:
In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union.
It talks of an exit agreement and a need to consider the future relationship.
Reply With Quote
  #6089  
Old 24.10.2016, 19:45
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 10,692
Groaned at 356 Times in 307 Posts
Thanked 14,165 Times in 7,780 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Yep I sure did and there is nothing in there obliging the EU to include a traded deal nor a change to the treaty in any way.



It talks of an exit agreement and a need to consider the future relationship.
I assume whoever drafted article 50 was thinking about the total exit of an EU state and disentangling all their activities; not that there would be a desire to negotiate a new trade deal.
Reply With Quote
  #6090  
Old 25.10.2016, 10:24
lewton's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Hamburg, Deutschland
Posts: 911
Groaned at 41 Times in 35 Posts
Thanked 765 Times in 443 Posts
lewton is considered knowledgeablelewton is considered knowledgeablelewton is considered knowledgeable
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
I assume whoever drafted article 50 was thinking about the total exit of an EU state and disentangling all their activities; not that there would be a desire to negotiate a new trade deal.
This is the beauty of it.
Nobody was trying to do it but the outcome will be much better than if somebody had been trying to achieve it.
Reply With Quote
  #6091  
Old 25.10.2016, 10:54
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 7,738
Groaned at 262 Times in 225 Posts
Thanked 9,288 Times in 4,888 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
I assume whoever drafted article 50 was thinking about the total exit of an EU state and disentangling all their activities; not that there would be a desire to negotiate a new trade deal.
Shape and scope of a follow-on contract are by definition unknown, thus can't be considered.
Reply With Quote
  #6092  
Old 25.10.2016, 14:13
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Küsnacht, Switzerland
Posts: 4,149
Groaned at 88 Times in 82 Posts
Thanked 8,628 Times in 3,966 Posts
Blueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
A very vocally pro-Brexit audience on the most recent Question Time from Hartlepool. The audience from Boston was mild by comparison. Towards the end (around 48:30) a Polish woman in the audience said she felt unwelcome as a result of the Brexit vote, and was shouted at and booed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5r8yQ8sz14
I watched that particular programme twice, mainly because of Varoufakis. The second viewing was with my OH and we didn't make it to the end because he was getting too angry at the audience views. The sheer ignorance and aggression of some of them was spectacular.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Blueangel for this useful post:
  #6093  
Old 25.10.2016, 14:33
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 10,692
Groaned at 356 Times in 307 Posts
Thanked 14,165 Times in 7,780 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Shape and scope of a follow-on contract are by definition unknown, thus can't be considered.
True but the process to negotiate any follow-on contract could have been outlined, perhaps by reference to relevant EU Articles.
Or simply by saying they will be treated like any other EU country.
Reply With Quote
  #6094  
Old 25.10.2016, 15:07
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 7,738
Groaned at 262 Times in 225 Posts
Thanked 9,288 Times in 4,888 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
True but the process to negotiate any follow-on contract could have been outlined, perhaps by reference to relevant EU Articles.
Or simply by saying they will be treated like any other EU country.
Something similar to the Bilaterals, which say that the party that wants change can request so? We all know the results of that request.
What's the use of taking the effort to, say, agree on how to initiate the procedure to remain in the EEA when the leaving country may not even wish to? Especially when this is probably outlined in the respective treaty already?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Urs Max for this useful post:
  #6095  
Old 25.10.2016, 15:12
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Geneva
Posts: 692
Groaned at 49 Times in 34 Posts
Thanked 1,097 Times in 632 Posts
Reb77Br has a reputation beyond reputeReb77Br has a reputation beyond reputeReb77Br has a reputation beyond reputeReb77Br has a reputation beyond reputeReb77Br has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
I watched that particular programme twice, mainly because of Varoufakis. The second viewing was with my OH and we didn't make it to the end because he was getting too angry at the audience views. The sheer ignorance and aggression of some of them was spectacular.
I thought Varoufakis talked a lot of sense. His comment about whether politicians who switched from enthusiastic Remain to enthusiastic Leave could be trusted seemed appropriate. There certainly seemed to be a lot of aggression from the audience and I thought the guy near the front who said he had done his "research" and who criticised his children's teachers definitely seemed to be flying the flag for dictatorship of the ignorant.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Reb77Br for this useful post:
  #6096  
Old 25.10.2016, 15:45
Jim2007's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Kt. Bern
Posts: 4,352
Groaned at 117 Times in 100 Posts
Thanked 5,147 Times in 2,435 Posts
Jim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
I assume whoever drafted article 50...
I believe it was Lord Kerr of Kinlochard, wonder which way he voted
Reply With Quote
  #6097  
Old 25.10.2016, 16:42
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Küsnacht, Switzerland
Posts: 4,149
Groaned at 88 Times in 82 Posts
Thanked 8,628 Times in 3,966 Posts
Blueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond reputeBlueangel has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
I thought Varoufakis talked a lot of sense.
You've picked up on the same audience member that my OH was getting his hair off at.

Varoufakis is proving to be a reasonable bellwether in all this. He has his own beliefs and is very clear about his personal agenda, but also exceptionally experienced and intelligent enough to not narrow his views down to purely his own belief system. I've been back over various interviews he gave over the last two years, and I wish he was a horse racing pundit. He's very good at predicting how individuals respond, not just the economics of a situation.

Two years ago, I hated him, then I began to really listen to what he was saying. Then I talked it over with my OH's niece who was a student of his in Athens. Now, I'm not hanging on his every word (because he is further to the left than I naturally am), but he talks a great degree of common sense.
Reply With Quote
  #6098  
Old 25.10.2016, 17:07
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
Varoufakis is proving to be a reasonable bellwether in all this. He has his own beliefs and is very clear about his personal agenda, but also exceptionally experienced and intelligent enough to not narrow his views down to purely his own belief system. I've been back over various interviews he gave over the last two years, and I wish he was a horse racing pundit. He's very good at predicting how individuals respond, not just the economics of a situation.
Did you miss what happened in Greece in 2015? About 15 billion in lost GDP, totally incompetent negotiator, the guy is an utter twonk.
Reply With Quote
  #6099  
Old 25.10.2016, 18:07
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 10,692
Groaned at 356 Times in 307 Posts
Thanked 14,165 Times in 7,780 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Quote:
View Post
I believe it was Lord Kerr of Kinlochard, wonder which way he voted
I assume he voted to remain but has now said if the Lords get to vote on Article 50 invokation then he will vote yes, source.
Reply With Quote
  #6100  
Old 25.10.2016, 19:00
marton's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Kt. Zürich
Posts: 10,692
Groaned at 356 Times in 307 Posts
Thanked 14,165 Times in 7,780 Posts
marton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond reputemarton has a reputation beyond repute
Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

GM warns of more cuts in Europe as Brexit bites.
The fall in sterling and softening vehicle demand will cost the company $300m in the final three months of the year.
Vauxhall’s UK plant at Ellesmere Port, which makes the Astra hatchback, is heavily reliant on EU sales, as around 80 per cent of the 120,000 cars produced at the site are exported to other member states.
GM already cut production at two mainland European plants that make models popular in Britain.

Source
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
europe




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 4 (1 members and 3 guests)
marton
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Latest Referendum, what will be consequences for EU (C permit and B permit) holders? expat2014 Permits/visas/government 3 11.02.2014 08:59
Importing vehicles and the VAT consequences in Switzerland from France BEFO Finance/banking/taxation 6 07.08.2013 15:11
The (Available in CH) Dog Food Review Thread meloncollie Pet corner 44 08.05.2012 20:15
Common-law marriage and consequences in CH Mishto Family matters/health 9 01.10.2011 22:03
Something for the Brits: M&S in CH mark Daily life 11 15.11.2007 12:18


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 14:40.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0