The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

	Quote:	Loz1983
	You need the glorious EU in order to set emissions levels. This is what you are saying. And it's idiotic.

Given the UK has a very inglorious record in this respect, yes.

There's some lovely pictures of Blackpool Beach here.
https://www.theguardian.com/environm...after-pictures
Anyone that swam here amongst the turds before about 1995 probably shouldn't look.

Point being successive UK governments singluarly failed to do anything about this because they claimed it was unaffordable or would handicap industry or whatever. So yes, it absolutely did need the EU.

If minimum standards are not set, someone will always try to undercut the rest by having cheap, low standards. Saves a bit on taxes, screws the environment. Look at China to see what happens when industrial polution is more of less completely unregulated.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	You need the glorious EU in order to set emissions levels. This is what you are saying. And it's idiotic.

Gee and there we were think that UK car assemblers wanted access to the EU market!

[Urs Max]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	You need the glorious EU in order to set emissions levels. This is what you are saying. And it's idiotic.

In theory the UK don't need EU regulations, that much should be obvious to anyone. But in reality they do as evidenced by the UK government, which prioritises business over its subject's health.

So if anything is idiotic ... it's not the post you quoted.

[marton]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	You need the glorious EU in order to set emissions levels. This is what you are saying. And it's idiotic.

No, I am saying you need the EU to force the UK to tackle excessive emissions levels.

Alone the UK would never do that, same for cleaning the UK beaches.

Face the facts

	Quote:	Urs Max
	In theory the UK don't need EU regulations, that much should be obvious to anyone. But in reality they do as evidenced by the UK government, which prioritises business over its subject's health. So if anything is idiotic ... it's not the post you quoted.

So does the EU. Why do you think Diesel cars have been so encouraged in the EU? It's down to the wishes of German car lobbyists. How is this not prioritising business over health?

[Mikers]

	Quote:	marton
	No, I am saying you need the EU to force the UK to tackle excessive emissions levels. Alone the UK would never do that, same for cleaning the UK beaches. Face the facts

Indeed the EU politicians are a beacon on thinking of others. Look at the salaries they pay themselves and their attendance records and the way they hide their perks to see how it is serving Europe that they put before themselves.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	marton
	No, I am saying you need the EU to force the UK to tackle excessive emissions levels.

	Quote:
	UK air pollution 'linked to 40,000 early deaths a year'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-35629034

	Quote:
	Air pollution 'kills 40,000 a year' in the UK, says report

http://www.nhs.uk/news/2016/02Februa...ys-report.aspx

	Quote:
	Every breath we take: the lifelong impact of air pollution This report from the RCP and the RCPCH examines the impact of exposure to air pollution across the course of a lifetime.

https://www.rcplondon.ac.uk/projects...-air-pollution

[Sbrinz]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	So does the EU. Why do you think Diesel cars have been so encouraged in the EU? It's down to the wishes of German car lobbyists. How is this not prioritising business over health?

Bollocks. Initially back in 1980, the politicians were faced with cleaning up the exhaust emissions in Europe. Then someone had the bright idea of setting a maximal limit on nitrogen emissions and by introducing the 3-way catalysator they had solved the very problem they had defined. Diesel engines have low nitrous emissions. The European governments then actively encouraged diesel cars by lowering their taxes.

Later the USA brought in stringent diesel pollution levels which most European car manufacturers have been trying very hard to comply with. The EU adopted the US regulations, and VW - Bosch has been caught cheating. The physics of internal combustion cannot easily be avoided, and Renault and other manufacturers are very worried they too will be investigated.

[Mikers]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-35629034 http://www.nhs.uk/news/2016/02Februa...ys-report.aspx https://www.rcplondon.ac.uk/projects...-air-pollution

http://www.airclim.org/acidnews/4470...ad-air-quality

"Germany, the country with the largest population in the list, shows the highest number of premature deaths due to PM2.5 pollution, with nearly 70,000 per year. It is followed by Italy and Poland, with almost 65,000 and 42,400 premature deaths per year, respectively."

[marton]

	Quote:	Mikers
	Indeed the EU politicians are a beacon on thinking of others. Look at the salaries they pay themselves and their attendance records and the way they hide their perks to see how it is serving Europe that they put before themselves.

"Lawmakers from the UK, Italy, Austria, Germany and the Netherlands all earn more than Members of the European Parliament, who take home around 96,000 euros a year."

Source

[Mikers]

	Quote:	marton
	"Lawmakers from the UK, Italy, Austria, Germany and the Netherlands all earn more than Members of the European Parliament, who take home around 96,000 euros a year." Source

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/eu-election...penses-1449492

It's so simple to bypass those pesky rules...

[marton]

	Quote:	Mikers
	http://www.airclim.org/acidnews/4470...ad-air-quality "Germany, the country with the largest population in the list, shows the highest number of premature deaths due to PM2.5 pollution, with nearly 70,000 per year. It is followed by Italy and Poland, with almost 65,000 and 42,400 premature deaths per year, respectively."

Are you saying the EU should take stronger action against EU member states to reduce air pollution or what is your point?

[Mikers]

	Quote:	marton
	Are you saying the EU should take stronger action against EU member states to reduce air pollution or what is your point?

The insinuation is the U.K. Government will abandon pollution targets because it's not in the eu. In fact most countries in the eu have terrible pollution records. Again someone suggests something 'might' happen and a few Chinese whispers later it's a concrete fact just like the unproven rubbish that the uk government is offering financial compensation to Nissan.

[marton]

	Quote:	Mikers
	http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/eu-election...penses-1449492 It's so simple to bypass those pesky rules...

What are you talking about
What rules are bypassed?
What is your point?

UK MPs get higher salaries than the EU MEPS and the same sort of expenses (average £160,000 per year) for travel, offices, staff, etc. Source

[marton]

	Quote:	Mikers
	The insinuation is the U.K. Government will abandon pollution targets because it's not in the eu. In fact most countries in the eu have terrible pollution records. Again someone suggests something 'might' happen and a few Chinese whispers later it's a concrete fact just like the unproven rubbish that the uk government is offering financial compensation to Nissan.

It is not an "insinuation"; it is a fact that the U.K. Government does not comply with the EU pollution targets.

The EU is taking legal action against EU countries that do not comply Source

Who will take legal action against the UK when the EU pollution targets are no longer relevant?

[Mikers]

	Quote:	marton
	What are you talking about What rules are bypassed? What is your point? UK MPs get higher salaries than the EU MEPS and the same sort of expenses (average £160,000 per year) for travel, offices, staff, etc. Source

160k eh ? On themselves or to run an office ? Hmm. Anyway as dodgy links at e the spirit of things http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/659...oliticians-MEP.

U.K. Politicians base salary 70k. Less than an Mep.

[Mikers]

	Quote:	marton
	It is not an "insinuation"; it is a fact that the U.K. Government does not comply with the EU pollution targets. The EU is taking legal action against EU countries that do not comply Source Who will take legal action against the UK when the EU pollution targets are no longer relevant?

But so do lots of eu countries. Why are you picking on Britain ?

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	Mikers
	But so do lots of eu countries. Why are you picking on Britain ?

Because the entire core of this particular part of the debate is that the UK don't need EU regulations, when we clearly do. 40,000 a year now. How many in 5yrs time once Theresa disMay has had her wicked way?

[marton]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Because the entire core of this particular part of the debate is that the UK don't need EU regulations, when we clearly do. 40,000 a year now. How many in 5yrs time once Theresa disMay has had her wicked way?

Speaking of which

Prime Minister Theresa is set to continue her plans to return to the traditions of Great Britain’s past by reintroducing the 1542 Witchcraft act.

Source

[marton]

	Quote:	Mikers
	160k eh ? On themselves or to run an office ? Hmm. Anyway as dodgy links at e the spirit of things http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/659...oliticians-MEP. U.K. Politicians base salary 70k. Less than an Mep.

Luckily Brexit destroyed the value of Sterling so UK MP salary is now worth less than a MEP