The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[marton]

	Quote:	Mikers
	160k eh ? On themselves or to run an office ? Hmm. Anyway as dodgy links at e the spirit of things http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/659...oliticians-MEP. U.K. Politicians base salary 70k. Less than an Mep.

Dodgy politicians and expenses?

They are all at it sunshine!
United Kingdom parliamentary expenses scandal here

	Quote:	Sbrinz
	Bollocks. Initially back in 1980, the politicians were faced with cleaning up the exhaust emissions in Europe. Then someone had the bright idea of setting a maximal limit on nitrogen emissions and by introducing the 3-way catalysator they had solved the very problem they had defined. Diesel engines have low nitrous emissions. The European governments then actively encouraged diesel cars by lowering their taxes. Later the USA brought in stringent diesel pollution levels which most European car manufacturers have been trying very hard to comply with. The EU adopted the US regulations, and VW - Bosch has been caught cheating. The physics of internal combustion cannot easily be avoided, and Renault and other manufacturers are very worried they too will be investigated.

The US just saw Diesel engines for what they really are. The Europeans (and EU) chose not to.

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Because the entire core of this particular part of the debate is that the UK don't need EU regulations, when we clearly do. 40,000 a year now. How many in 5yrs time once Theresa disMay has had her wicked way?

"We need EU regulation".

Good grief.

[Sbrinz]

The British press could always raise a few laughs and print the obscure EU regulations on ugly fruit etc.
But if you really are against regulations, try this: fly to a 3rd world country, take a taxi to a middle priced hotel, & by midnight you will wish you were back in the EU.

[Sbrinz]

An announcement on Parliament & Article 50 will be made at 11 am Swiss time, today!

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-37855207
Separately, Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson has been greeted by laughter after claiming Brexit would be a "titanic success".
Speaking at the Spectator Parliamentarian of the Year Awards, he appeared to compare leaving the EU to the cruise ship that sank in 1912 on its maiden voyage.
He said: "In the words of our great Prime Minister, Brexit means Brexit, and we are going to make a titanic, a titanic success of it."
After loud laughter from the audience, Mr Johnson corrected himself, adding: "We are going to make a colossal, a colossal success of Brexit."

[Urs Max]

	Quote:	Sbrinz
	The British press could always raise a few laughs and print the obscure EU regulations on ugly fruit etc. But if you really are against regulations, try this: fly to a 3rd world country, take a taxi to a middle priced hotel, & by midnight you will wish you were back in the EU.

Or start a business in Eritrea, Iraq, Yemen, South Sudan, etc:
No government to regulate, it's all free markets and entrepreneurship. Time for all free-market folks to prove their abilities, do go ahead.

[marton]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	"We need EU regulation". Good grief.

So exactly which EU regulations do you not want? A couple of examples?
Apart from Health and Safety regulations where you clearly do not want emission limits and such!

	Quote:	marton
	So exactly which EU regulations do you not want? A couple of examples? Apart from Health and Safety regulations where you clearly do not want emission limits and such!

That was always a fun question to Brexiters during (and after) the referendum as hardly any could actually name a regulation they wanted to get rid of. The few that did invariably mentioned one of the lies invented by the Daily Mail/Express rather than anything real.

What few grasp is that the volume of regulations is mainly driven by the need to maintain a proper level playing field for the single market and to ensure that all companies can compete on a completely equal basis.

	Quote:	Sbrinz
	An announcement on Parliament & Article 50 will be made at 11 am Swiss time, today!

Nothing will be decided today. Whatever is announced will be appealed.

	Quote:
	That was always a fun question to Brexiters during (and after) the referendum as hardly any could actually name a regulation they wanted to get rid of. The few that did invariably mentioned one of the lies invented by the Daily Mail/Express rather than anything real. What few grasp is that the volume of regulations is mainly driven by the need to maintain a proper level playing field for the single market and to ensure that all companies can compete on a completely equal basis.

By debilitating a company's ability to compete, and even beyond that by debilitating a country's ability to properly manage its problems.

[Sbrinz]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Nothing will be decided today. Whatever is announced will be appealed.

No, today it will be an important decision!

If the 3 judges decide parliament must approve the calling on Article 50, (see the Bill of Rights 1689) then the appeal will take many, many, months to decide as without a complete constitution, the interpretation affects the basis of all commonwealth democracy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_of_Rights_1689

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	Sbrinz
	No, today it will be an important decision!

Exactly.

Ther main sticking point for the judges is that, the UK has an unwritten constitution to allow for flexibility. This would be the first time part of the constitution is written, and the judges are loathe to take that step and won't do it lightly.

	Quote:	marton
	So exactly which EU regulations do you not want? A couple of examples? Apart from Health and Safety regulations where you clearly do not want emission limits and such!

Minimum level of VAT, VAT on energy bills, Common Fisheries Policy, Fish discarding (only overturned following a UK led campaign), Rules on the capital held by banks, regulation on payments across the EU, Working time directive, Benefits for EU migrants (though the UK has a better deal on this than other countries), Free movement of labour (that EU nationals get preference over rest of world), regulation on the power of vacuum cleaners, endless regulation on food.

As for the rest:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGeDX-6DINM

	Quote:	Sbrinz
	No, today it will be an important decision! If the 3 judges decide parliament must approve the calling on Article 50, (see the Bill of Rights 1689) then the appeal will take many, many, months to decide as without a complete constitution, the interpretation affects the basis of all commonwealth democracy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_of_Rights_1689

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Exactly. Ther main sticking point for the judges is that, the UK has an unwritten constitution to allow for flexibility. This would be the first time part of the constitution is written, and the judges are loathe to take that step and won't do it lightly.

If this gets blocked on some ridiculous out dated legal pretext then there will be seventeen and a half million very pissed off people. Just imagine the protests. If this is blocked either of the following will happen:

1) May calls a General Election over single policy of Brexit and strolls to a 100+ majority
2) Royal prerogative (equally outdated) is used to invoke Art. 50 anyhow

Either way, the outcome remains the same. Brexit will happen.

[Sbrinz]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Royal prerogative (equally outdated) is used to invoke Art. 50 anyhow Either way, the outcome remains the same. Brexit will happen.

You have not bothered to read the Bill of Rights have you?

Get ready to the idea of being paid in Euros....

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	Sbrinz
	The British press could always raise a few laughs and print the obscure EU regulations on ugly fruit etc. But if you really are against regulations, try this: fly to a 3rd world country, take a taxi to a middle priced hotel, & by midnight you will wish you were back in the EU.

Plenty of crap mid priced hotels in CH, even priced at 180 a night in Geneva, makes a Hotel Ibis seem like a palace.

[Sbrinz]

	Quote:	Sbrinz
	No, today it will be an important decision! If the 3 High Court judges decide parliament must approve the calling on Article 50, (see the Bill of Rights 1689) then the appeal will take many, many, months to decide as without a complete constitution, the interpretation affects the basis of all commonwealth democracy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_of_Rights_1689

The 3 judges have decided Parliament must make the Brexit decision. http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-37857785

This creates a huge problem for the government.

The government has no chance of getting the House of Lords to overturn the decision, but Theresa May could of course appeal to the European Court...

Not many people saw that one coming!

	Quote:	Sbrinz
	The 3 judges have decided Parliament must make the Brexit decision. This creates a huge problem for the government. The government has no chance of getting the House of Lords to overturn the decision, but Theresa May could of course appeal to the European Court... Not many people saw that one coming!

You mean the Supreme court.

Any MPs who block this in Parliament will be out of a job. That simple.

	Quote:	Loz1983
	You mean the Supreme court. Any MPs who block this in Parliament will be out of a job. That simple.

Well apart from Scottish MPs
And Northern Irish ones
And London ones.....

[xynth]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	You mean the Supreme court. Any MPs who block this in Parliament will be out of a job. That simple.

I don't see it so black and white. 51.9% voted to leave, that leaves 48.1% not represented by the result.

So in your mind, because just a hair over half the attending voters decided to leave, every single MP (even those who campaigned against a brexit) now have to vote for it? That's bollocks.

I think a more realistic view is that if the judges' decision stands, a new round of power struggle will ensue and the outcome is far from certain.