The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH - Page 314

#**6261** 03.11.2016, 11:30

	Quote:	xynth
	I don't see it so black and white. 51.9% voted to leave, that leaves 48.1% not represented by the result. So in your mind, because just a hair over half the attending voters decided to leave, every single MP (even those who campaigned against a brexit) now have to vote for it? That's bollocks. I think a more realistic view is that if the judges' decision stands, a new round of power struggle will ensue and the outcome is far from certain.

Three unelected judges have empowered 650 MPs to go against the will of 17.4 million people. What a democratic system we have. The Remainers will be so happy.

Sbrinz · #**6262** 03.11.2016, 11:32

	Quote:	Loz1983
	You mean the Supreme court. Any MPs who block this in Parliament will be out of a job. That simple.

No, it is possible to go straight to the CJEU. bypassing the supreme court.

Before the June referendum, only a quarter of the MPs were leavers.

We shall see, anything can happen! In the meantime, you could read this legal opinion,

https://www.monckton.com/article-50-...court-justice/

#**6263** 03.11.2016, 11:34

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Three unelected judges have empowered 650 MPs to go against the will of 17.4 million people. What a democratic system we have. The Remainers will be so happy.

I think most people, regardless of their leave or remain feelings, are wondering if anyone knows their arse from their elbow in this.

Seems nobody actually thought it through to any significant point into the future.

Jim2007 · #**6264** 03.11.2016, 11:38

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Three unelected judges have empowered 650 MPs to go against the will of 17.4 million people. What a democratic system we have. The Remainers will be so happy.

Total nonsense! If you knew anything about how democracy and the separation of powers works you'd understand that.

#**6265** 03.11.2016, 11:39

	Quote:
	Well apart from Scottish MPs And Northern Irish ones And London ones.....

If UK MPs vote along constituency lines, it's an an even bigger leave vote.

grumpygrapefruit · #**6266** 03.11.2016, 11:40

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Three unelected judges have empowered 650 MPs to go against the will of 17.4 million people. What a democratic system we have. The Remainers will be so happy.

Not at all, just more mess more for the country to sort out. The only thing I'm happy about is that the UK parliament does have sovereignty after all and is allowed to debate exactly how Brexit will happen before Article 50 is invoked.

	Quote:
	I think most people, regardless of their leave or remain feelings, are wondering if anyone knows their arse from their elbow in this. Seems nobody actually thought it through to any significant point into the future.

Exactly. Before the referendum I saw or heard very little debate about how exactly Brexit might happen. This could take years to sort out and in the meantime the only winners are UK exporters and people like me that import from the UK.

Reb77Br · #**6267** 03.11.2016, 11:42

Boris Johnson: U.K. will make 'Titanic success' of Brexit

Slaphead · #**6268** 03.11.2016, 11:45

	Quote:
	I think most people, regardless of their leave or remain feelings, are wondering if anyone knows their arse from their elbow in this. Seems nobody actually thought it through to any significant point into the future.

Least of all the electorate.

#**6269** 03.11.2016, 11:48

	Quote:	Jim2007
	Total nonsense! If you knew anything about how democracy and the separation of powers works you'd understand that.

I know that MPs can't be trusted to represent the will of their constituents. In a way it's a good thing that this has happened, people will perhaps finally be able to see whether UK democracy represents the will of the people. Direct democracy is the way forward.

If only they'd waited another two days to announce this, it would have been quite apt.

#**6270** 03.11.2016, 11:49

Brexit torpedoed by high court?

#**6271** 03.11.2016, 11:50

	Quote:	grumpygrapefruit
	Exactly. Before the referendum I saw or heard very little debate about how exactly Brexit might happen. This could take years to sort out and in the meantime the only winners are UK exporters and people like me that import from the UK.

This is where the "unhappiness" will kick in. Brexit promised a far bigger cheque than it had the funds to cover. Brexit supporters were expecting a big axe-like event severing all ties with the EU and nobody piped up at the time to manage those expectations.

Well, maybe they did but they got drowned out by the cries of "scare mongering". Should have been shouting "reality mongering"

	Quote:	Reb77Br
	Boris Johnson: U.K. will make 'Titanic success' of Brexit

Someone from his PR office is going to need a stiff talking to and a history lesson. Bahahaha!

	Quote:	Phos
	Brexit torpedoed by high court?

Or an ice berg if you're from Boris Johnson's press office...

marton · #**6272** 03.11.2016, 11:56

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Three unelected judges have empowered 650 MPs to go against the will of 17.4 million people. What a democratic system we have. The Remainers will be so happy.

Surely you were the one who told people supported Brexit because of "sovereignty" not immigration.
Now you (and many others) are against our sovereign Parliament voting on the most important UK decision for centuries.
Do the Leavers really want "sovereignty" or not?

	Quote:	Sbrinz
	No, it is possible to go straight to the CJEU. bypassing the supreme court. Before the June referendum, only a quarter of the MPs were leavers. We shall see, anything can happen! In the meantime, you could read this legal opinion, https://www.monckton.com/article-50-...court-justice/

It is possible the CJEU would decide they are not competent and would refer it back to the UK, there are precedents for this.
The CJEU is basically to give views on EU law and this is really a view on the British Constitution; whatever that is

It does, of course, add to the continuing loss of credibility by May whose Ministers make statements about Brexit that she often contradicts.
Really so far she has been less than impressive?

Meanwhile in the EU there is overall the sound of people banging their heads against walls

#**6273** 03.11.2016, 12:03

	Quote:	marton
	Surely you were the one who told people supported Brexit because of "sovereignty" not immigration. Now you (and many others) are against our sovereign Parliament voting on the most important UK decision for centuries. Do the Leavers really want "sovereignty" or not?

Yes, you see this as a wonderful day Parliamentary democracy, which can can now be used to hand powers over to Brussels

In case you forgot, the Referendum was approved overwhelmingly by an act of Parliament.

#**6274** 03.11.2016, 12:08

	Quote:	Loz1983
	In case you forgot, the Referendum was approved overwhelmingly by an act of Parliament.

But it was approved on the basis of being an advisory. Sneaky buggers, eh..?

grumpygrapefruit · #**6275** 03.11.2016, 12:09

	Quote:	Phos
	Brexit torpedoed by high court?

Not at all. It just means that Parliament does after all have the democratic right to debate how this will happen. And quite right too.

marton · #**6276** 03.11.2016, 12:09

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Yes, you see this as a wonderful day Parliamentary democracy, which can can now be used to hand powers over to Brussels In case you forgot, the Referendum was approved overwhelmingly by an act of Parliament.

So now the "whining" Remainers are joined by the "whining" leavers, welcome to the club

#**6277** 03.11.2016, 12:16

	Quote:	marton
	So now the "whining" Remainers are joined by the "whining" leavers, welcome to the club

Still leaving the EU, bruv.

Nothing decided today. Appeal will be next month. Even if upheld, the UK will still be leaving the EU.

Hopefully this will just serve as a nail in the coffin for Parliamentary democracy.

PaddyG · #**6278** 03.11.2016, 12:23

What a mess, of EU commission proportions.

#**6279** 03.11.2016, 12:26

	Quote:	marton
	So now the "whining" Remainers are joined by the "whining" leavers, welcome to the club

What stage are you at?

https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/794137827638472704

Medea Fleecestealer · #**6280** 03.11.2016, 12:36

	Quote:	grumpygrapefruit
	Not at all. It just means that Parliament does after all have the democratic right to debate how this will happen. And quite right too.

Debate what exactly? The people said leave. What is there left to debate? You can't discuss what sort of terms to put to the EU, can't really discuss whether to do it sooner or later given that May has said March and the EU won't hang around waiting forever. So what is left to talk about?

Of course if the result does stay the same, I'm sure a whole lot of hot air will be blown out in Parliament. For me they can all save that hot air and simply vote as the people want. Leave the EU.