The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[curley]

	Quote:	Sbrinz
	That is a major No-No for the UK. Britain is not with Schengen.

you even underlined the "could be" in the quotation of my text.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	Sbrinz
	The UK pound floats against the Euro but the Greek, Italian, Spanish and Portuguese Euro cannot move, and so other factors become changeable. In the old days the Lira, Pisa and Drachma would have simply devalued, but today they cannot devalue their currency. And so the result is high unemployment in these countries, with resulting migration to the UK.

Well the UK has had full control over it's currency throughout the recession and yet it has not faired any better than the rest of the world. Why did the UK no devalue it's currency and improve it's trading situation? The reality is with it's combined deficits of current account and budget reaching over 9% of GDP (putting it close to Brazil BTW), it could not afford to do so.

As for the others they are already trading in an under valued currency. Unlike the UK, Italy has been producing a positive balance of trade since 2012. And indeed the others while still negative have at lease improved their position.

We have seen from Switzerland's recent attempts to peg the Franc to the Euro that such attempts require vast financial reserves beyond what most countries could afford in the long run.

These days the only countries the might possibly be able to carry out a devaluation at lease for a short period is probably Switzerland and Norway and even they don't have the resources to sustain it over the long period need for a recovery.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	cyrus
	How so? They won't refuse to sell us food, but you think it will be cheaper? how?

If Britain leaves they can buy food from anyone, can you imagine the doors that open. No EU restrictions.

The average person (someone earning ca £28k) will be better off, exodus of London as a safe haven for dirty money, lower cost housing what's not to like?

[cyrus]

They already buy food from everyone? Last time I checked a UK supermarket, it's goods were not exclusively european....

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	adrianlondon
	Having said that: Voting in a particular direction because one fears change is not good. Stockholm syndrome.

I don't fear change. I only fear sharks and snakes. Period!

I honestly feel that the majority of ex pats here lived in a rarified bubble created by employment in the banking, IT and pharma industries. I worked 15yrs in mass food production and 11 in hospitality & business travel and have absolutely no doubt that those industries will be hit hard. Since Brexit was on the table as a possibility, I've seen more friends and former colleagues made redundant than at any time in the last 20yrs and it's not over yet. Because both of my former employers were multi-nationals, they've shipped a hell of a lot of jobs over to the European Mainland. By coincidence, both companies have outsourced their IT to India and finance divisions to the Irish Republic.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	adrianlondon
	I think Britain should stay in the EU and that the EU needs a huge amount of reform.

The one thing you can say about the EU is that it will change, you only have to look at the changes since 1974 to today to realise that. The real question is if the UK wants to commit to the direction of the change or not.

[cyrus]

And I sure as hell don't see how leaving the EU is going to undo Britains own policy of making sure house prices rise above wage increases. Unless you mean house prices will get cheaper because the UK will not be a place anyone wants to live anymore.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	cyrus
	They already buy food from everyone? Last time I checked a UK supermarket, it's goods were not exclusively european....

I'm imagining a entire country going from having Tesco Extra and ASDA Superstores to having Migros in terms of size, stock, variety and prices.

Estimated population of Zurich 2015 - 380,500

Supermarkets: Coop. Migros, Aldi, Lidl.

Estimated population of Wigan 2015 - 97,000

Supermakets: ASDA, Sainsburys, Tesco, Morrisons, Aldi, Lidl.

The little Tesco Express round the corner from my house has a greater variety of products that the Migros in Hauptbahnhof even though it's 1/4 the size.

I'm old enough to remember what shopping was like in the UK before the EU, and I definitely don't want it to go back to that or be anything like Switzerland. It would be a tremedous burden on all my friends with children and two incomes, nevermind the people who don't even have that.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	cyrus
	And I sure as hell don't see how leaving the EU is going to undo Britains own policy of making sure house prices rise above wage increases. Unless you mean house prices will get cheaper because the UK will not be a place anyone wants to live anymore.

Just wait & see what happens

Meanwhile Lidl in the UK has recalled Milk Chocolate with Hazelnuts due to undeclared allergens : Milk & hazelnuts

Survival of the fittest seems to have been dumbed down to an unprecedented level by the EU, no wonder people are frightened of the unknown.
The nanny state rules.

[cyrus]

I was going to say, if you need to imagine a supermarket of a european nation that exists out of the EU, Switzerland is not a glowing example for Brexit.

[cyrus]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Just wait & see what happens Meanwhile Lidl in the UK has recalled Milk Chocolate with Hazelnuts due to undeclared allergens : Milk & hazelnuts Survival of the fittest seems to have been dumbed down to an unprecedented level by the EU, no wonder people are frightened of the unknown. The nanny state rules.

Hahaha, it's funny that they had to change the text on packaging so people with allergies don't die.

	Quote:	adrianlondon
	I think Britain should stay in the EU and that the EU needs a huge amount of reform. Having said that: Voting in a particular direction because one fears change is not good. Stockholm syndrome.

The question though is how exactly is that reform going to happen with the EU we have now: an unelected, non-transparent and unaccountable Europe. Balance is needed at the heart of the EU and I am not aware of a will to change the organisation for the better? We, the people, have no say or choice anyway as we can't vote to force change.. at least, as DB wrote, we can vote the sh!te national government out. As the UK electorate, with local and national government, we can continue to put pressure on politicians/councils to change laws and influence policy/ decision making.

I'm out.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	cyrus
	Hahaha, it's funny that they had to change the text on packaging so people with allergies don't die.

If people in the UK can't work out that Milk chocolate with hazelnuts, might contain Milk or Hazelnuts, it's a sad day for the UK.

	Quote:	cyrus
	Hahaha, it's funny that they had to change the text on packaging so people with allergies don't die.

They failed to declare the milk and hazelnuts in milk chocolate with hazelnuts.

They failed to declare the milk in a piece of cheese.

They failed to declare the wheat in a bread mix.

I despair for the world, sometimes.

[cyrus]

I get you, I've laughed before at stuff like a notice on a packet of eggs thats says "contains eggs"

But also, a lot of our food is not what the manufacturers would like you to believe it is, not only that, it is a practise that is entirely accepted. Who's to say Cadburys uses real hazelnuts, or some strange product that tastes like hazelnut.

Rather than saying, ok for product x,y,z we must have warning labels (and the x,y,z is a constantly moving target), instead we have rules that say, if your product contains x,y,z, you must declare it.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	The ability to change any government who does not do what the electorate wants is important if you live in a democracy. People who do a bad job need to be fired, no jobs for life with zero accountability.

So explain to us again how the UK ended up in the EU without anyone voting for it??? And why even after the vote there is nothing stopping the PM say signing up to membership of the EEA if he sees fit.

[cyrus]

	Quote:
	They failed to declare the milk and hazelnuts in milk chocolate with hazelnuts. They failed to declare the milk in a piece of cheese. They failed to declare the wheat in a bread mix. I despair for the world, sometimes.

It's terrible, they had to change the text on their packaging.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	Swisstree
	The question though is how exactly is that reform going to happen with the EU we have now: an unelected, non-transparent and unaccountable Europe.

So you didn't vote in the EU Parliamentary Elections???

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	So explain to us again how the UK ended up in the EU without anyone voting for it??? And why even after the vote there is nothing stopping the PM say signing up to membership of the EEA if he sees fit.

Edward Heath was Prime Minister from 19 June 1970- 4 March 1974, however the Conservatives lost the election & Harold Wilson became PM.

2/3 of the electorate did confirm the decision to join the EU in 1975 referendum, so it is reasonable to assume the country was in favour of membership of the Common Market at the time.

	Quote:	Blueangel
	So you didn't vote in the EU Parliamentary Elections???

The European Parliament has no teeth. It can neither propose nor repeal laws.

The real power rests with the unelected Commissioners.