The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[Mikers]

	Quote:	Sandgrounder
	Isn't that a bit like the Hillary votes phenomenon, though? She won the popular votes by 2.2 million but her supporters are being told to shut up because nobody's interested. Same could be said for Farage. He's got a big following but that counts for nowt in the grand scheme of things. People should be careful what they preach to each other, because sometimes you have to suck it up yourself.

I know there is a movement on to get the Electoral College to not vote in Trump because he's unfit for Office. Rather like losing a Referendum and then saying it doesnt count because its not the result you want.

[bigblue2]

but the polls have been totally wrong for 2 UK elections, brexit and the us election, so why trust this one??

as one commentator said on tv recently, people are so fed up with the politicians they are just lying to the polesters (always found exit polls to be a bit odd anyway, they wouldn't get a correct answer from me)

[Odile]

	Quote:	Cata1yst
	It does not matter, it is completely irrelevant. The vote was held and the result was the result. Perhaps we should rerun the last general election (which was also full of lies) or does that one work for you?

You are right, it's the crack- they sell it on every street corner here and in the OAP homes.

It certainly illustrates that the 'will and power of the People' is daft- and your reaction is totally irrelevant to me too.

[bigblue2]

	Quote:	Odile
	You know full well that the vote was not fair- and that so many people clearly voted based on lies

so far nothing the exiters have said has been lies but some of what the remainers said hasn't come to pass, stock market etc is doing pretty well.

[Cata1yst]

	Quote:	Odile
	You are right, it's the crack- they sell it on every street corner here and in the OAP homes. It certainly illustrates that the 'will and power of the People' is daft- and your reaction is totally irrelevant to me too.

Again just in case you didn't understand

The number at the in the first row below is higher than the second number.

This means that the first number is the request of the people in the UK referendum to leave the European Union.

Leave the European Union 17,410,742
Remain a member of the European Union 16,141,241

[baboon]

	Quote:	bigblue2
	so far nothing the exiters have said has been lies but some of what the remainers said hasn't come to pass, stock market etc is doing pretty well.

You mean apart from yhe 350 million? Oh and the stock market is totally held up by the crash in the value of the pound.

Anyway, can I yet again remind you BREXIT HASN'T HAPPENED YET

[porsch1909]

	Quote:	bigblue2
	but the polls have been totally wrong for 2 UK elections, brexit and the us election, so why trust this one?? as one commentator said on tv recently, people are so fed up with the politicians they are just lying to the polesters (always found exit polls to be a bit odd anyway, they wouldn't get a correct answer from me)

The last exit poll for the UK General election was very accurate if I remember correctly

[bigblue2]

	Quote:	baboon
	Anyway, can I yet again remind you BREXIT HASN'T HAPPENED YET

which is exactly why the leavers haven't lied yet, yes they promised 350m to the nhs, but until they leave at the 350m doesn't materialize they are not liars. The fact the pound tanked is of no relevance to most leavers, they where threatened with stock market chaos, house price crashes and a 3rd world war, none of which has happened (yet)

[Sandgrounder]

	Quote:	bigblue2
	which is exactly why the leavers haven't lied yet, yes they promised 350m to the nhs, but until they leave at the 350m doesn't materialize they are not liars. The fact the pound tanked is of no relevance to most leavers, they where threatened with stock market chaos, house price crashes and a 3rd world war, none of which has happened (yet)

They already debunked that the day after the vote, though. Most of the Leave campaign distanced themselves from it and left it to Farage (?) to say it wasn't happening.

[baboon]

	Quote:	Sandgrounder
	They already debunked that the day after the vote, though. Most of the Leave campaign distanced themselves from it and left it to Farage (?) to say it wasn't happening.

It was thoroughly debunked during the campaign but that didn't stop the leave campaigns continuing to lie about it

[bigblue2]

	Quote:	Sandgrounder
	They already debunked that the day after the vote, though. Most of the Leave campaign distanced themselves from it and left it to Farage (?) to say it wasn't happening.

correct, but until is doesn't happen they are not liars.

Putting a spin on it at the moment is easy, the remains HAVE lied, so far the exiters Haven't and thats how Farage etc will play it if (when) the Gov try to get out of it.

[st2lemans]

	Quote:	Sandgrounder
	Isn't that a bit like the Hillary votes phenomenon, though? She won the popular votes by 2.2 million but her supporters are being told to shut up because nobody's interested.

Talk about exaggeration.

It's 600k, not 2.2M!

Tom

[Cata1yst]

	Quote:	st2lemans
	Talk about exaggeration. It's 600k, not 2.2M! Tom

630,877 to be exact.

[Sandgrounder]

	Quote:	st2lemans
	Talk about exaggeration. It's 600k, not 2.2M! Tom

Apparently the votes are still being counted and the final estimation is a majority of 2.2 million. Obviously that's an estimate but it's still a reasonable margin.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7413596.html

	Quote:
	Nate Cohn, an election analyst at the New York Times, estimates that once all votes have been counted, 63.4 million Americans will have voted for Mrs Clinton and 61.2 million for Mr Trump, giving the Democrat a ‘winning’ margin of 1.5 per cent.

Yes, the analyst could exaggerate his estimation but then he'd look a bit of a knob if he was totally wrong when the final votes are counted.

[LuvSwissGermanAndItalian]

The Brexit and the election of President Trump are some of the best things that happened in 2016.

The UK must follow the Swiss path. The EU is doomed anyway

[amogles]

	Quote:	Odile
	Perhaps you didn't actually read my post. The BE study didn't 'just' count the regretters - but a whole array of categories- with negative and positivve effects on the vote. For instance, the numbers of expats now over 15 years abroad and no longer allowed to vote since then, was estimated at 260.000 on leave side and 1,044,645 on remain side (= minus) ...

If you cast a vote aned thereby participate in an a vote, you are effectively approving the voting system. If you don't approve of the way votes are counted, or don't approve of the question being asked or the terms under which it ius being asked, the right thing to do is to not vote or spoil your ballot.

If I recall correctly, voter turnout was over 50%.

[marton]

	Quote:	Cata1yst
	So since the 23rd June there is now a 2 million swing to remain? Are you on crack? Just checking as the BS statistics/polls are pretty much useless in this regard (are these the same people who ran the original polls, certain for remain/Hillary to win?) You would need a second referendum at a 50M cost to prove or disprove. This is the final point, there will be no second referendum in the next few years so accept it will happen and try to do the best under those circumstances. I would have accepted any result either way as the will of the people why is it others cannot accept a democratic result? I'm astounded by "intelligent" people who continually refuse to accept the outcome of the referendum because it doesn't fit their own personal beliefs and "they know better." Hint - this is why "remain" lost, "knowing better" and being "more intelligent" does not equal votes and you need to listen to the forgotten people of the UK to know why they voted out. I have said this many times before, this is why the forgotten gave a middle finger to politicians who do not listen to them. The US election was again won on the rules that are in place in a fair and open competition. Hillary outspent Trump 6:1, so she certainly used all weapons at her disposal. Certainly Hillary got more votes over all (600k out of 102 Million) but that is not the point, the election of the president does not work that way, this has happened many times in the past with presidential elections. I hated GW Bush, but that was the result and it was accepted. Lets not forget the UK election votes were 1.3M difference on 46.5M people, so theoretically 4 times more people won the "popular" vote to leave the UK in the referendum than the US gap, which is BS really as we know statistics are what you want them to be. The only statistic that counts is :- Leave the European Union 17,410,742 Remain a member of the European Union 16,141,241 Valid votes 33,551,983 Invalid or blank votes 25,359 Total votes 33,577,342 (72.21%, one of the highest turnouts for a UK vote in living history.) You may not like what is happening and many don't, but it is better to challenge the future and improve it rather than the best of 3 scissors, paper, rock scenario which will not happen. It just makes people look like sore losers who are unable to accept and discuss others point of view. That's it no further discussions. The votes were fair and this is the result.

"It just makes people look like sore losers who are unable to accept and discuss others point of view." So you are against UK general elections every five years; once a political party is voted in it shows the will of the people and there should not another election?

You compared with the US, you know they have presidential elections every four years so people can change their minds

[marton]

	Quote:	amogles
	If you cast a vote aned thereby participate in an a vote, you are effectively approving the voting system. If you don't approve of the way votes are counted, or don't approve of the question being asked or the terms under which it ius being asked, the right thing to do is to not vote or spoil your ballot. If I recall correctly, voter turnout was over 50%.

"you are effectively approving the voting system" that is not the same as approving the referendum campaigns which turned out to be badly flawed on both sides.

[marton]

	Quote:	bigblue2
	which is exactly why the leavers haven't lied yet, yes they promised 350m to the nhs, but until they leave at the 350m doesn't materialize they are not liars. The fact the pound tanked is of no relevance to most leavers, they where threatened with stock market chaos, house price crashes and a 3rd world war, none of which has happened (yet)

Theresa May has announced the NHS will receive no extra funding in the wake of the Brexit vote.

Instead, the health service should focus on making key efficiencies to backfill the £22bn deficit in its finances, the PM told NHS England Chief Executive Simon Stevens last week.

Source

[bigblue2]

and as the high court have confirmed, that not her decision to make, the house needs to vote, deals need to be done etc etc

I'm not for one second saying the nhs will get anything, just playing devils advocate, nigel will use every trick in the book and the people will eat it up (again)