The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	2/3 of the electorate did confirm the decision to join the EU in 1975 referendum, so it is reasonable to assume the country was in favour of membership of the Common Market at the time.

That's because people were sold a merry little tale about it being a "trading group". The sneaky bastards in government kept the "ever-closer union" bit of the Treaty of Rome quiet.

[cyrus]

Most small businesses are exempt from laws on labeling, you won't get into trouble selling your home made jam at the local fair, no matter what the Brexit people will want you to believe.

There's a difference between joe bloggs selling real ale at the beer festival and Budweiser. Budweiser would like you to beliieve that all these terrible laws to ensure they don't sell you literal piss water are the same ones that apply to joe selling real ale because it's a passion of his. Joe wants to sell you quality goods, Budweiser wants to sell you something as cheap as they can make it for maximum profit. Labelling on products on is a tiny problem for budweiser, but joe bloggs can proudly claim his beer was made with locally grown hops and a well down the road.

At the end of the day, our day to day lives are ruled by Budweiser, not joe bloggs.

I hate how international conglomerates try to express their concerns as those of small business, walmart doesn't care if you can't employ the local teenager at less than liveable wages, it cares that you can't employ people on less than liveable wages, walmart will drive your little business into the ground because it now has access to even cheaper labour.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	cyrus
	I hate how international conglomerates try to express their concerns as those of small business, walmart doesn't care if you can't employ the local teenager at less than liveable wages, it cares that you can't employ people on less than liveable wages, walmart will drive your little business into the ground because it now has access to even cheaper labour.

Are you saying that there is no cheap labour in the EU as only liveable wages are paid?

[cyrus]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Are you saying that there is no cheap labour in the EU as only liveable wages are paid?

Goin off on one, obviously cheap labour exists, isn't that part of the Brexit argument? Local uk jobs forced out by cheaper immigrants.

In this regard Switzerland is actually a good example, while still having a large immigrant population they still maintain a high standard of living.

However i've not heard anything from brexit about raising earnings

[cyrus]

It's probably very dangerous to compare switzerland and the UK in this aspect, while we all enjoy the benefits of living in Switzerland, it's got here though a very long process and still pays money to the EU.

Also, there are very many cultural differences, like a lot of the things that go to the high standard of living here simply would not fly in a Brexit britain. Rent controls? High minimum wage? phhhtt...

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	cyrus
	It's probably very dangerous to compare switzerland and the UK in this aspect, while we all enjoy the benefits of living in Switzerland, it's got here though a very long process and still pays money to the EU. Also, there are very many cultural differences, like a lot of the things that go to the high standard of living here simply would not fly in a Brexit britain. Rent controls? High minimum wage? phhhtt...

Uk previously had rent controls, some people still benefit from them.......Plenty of sitting tenants......
They could easily be reintroduced ........

Interesting how there's a presumption that a non-EU Britain would automatically be Tory controlled.

How does that work, then?

[cyrus]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Uk previously had rent controls, some people still benefit from them.......Plenty of sitting tenants...... They could easily be reintroduced ........

Yeah, im sure middle england will go for that after being told their homes are investments.

[cyrus]

	Quote:
	Interesting how there's a presumption that a non-EU Britain would automatically be Tory controlled. How does that work, then?

You'd go for those non tory policies?

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	cyrus
	Yeah, im sure middle england will go for that after being told their homes are investments.

It's landlords who will be effected, not so much 'home owners' or whatever people with a 5% deposit & a 30 plus mortgage are called.

Labour historically does not like rich people.......... Top rates of tay were 84%, base rate 34% no doubt before you were working. National Insurance on top, yes the poor has one 44% deducted from earnings, rather like France today.

[cyrus]

Tbh, I've been looking forward to applying for a swiss passport for years, but i'd still like it if it's easy to go back and my family don't starve. I've no confidence in the uk since it became the US lapdog in the thatcher and reagan era. Most of our problems exist from decisions made back then and the EU is just the latest scapegoat.

	Quote:	Blueangel
	So you didn't vote in the EU Parliamentary Elections???

Voting, you say

Not only are we powerless to influence change, we don't even know what is going on most of the time. The European commission, the European parliament and the council often come together in secretive & closed negotiations and bring about laws which we all have to suck up.

No debate. No transparency.

[marton]

	Quote:	Swisstree
	Voting, you say Not only are we powerless to influence change, we don't even know what is going on most of the time. The European commission, the European parliament and the council often come together in secretive & closed negotiations and bring about laws which we all have to suck up. No debate. No transparency.

"The European commission, the European parliament and the council often come together in secretive & closed negotiations and bring about laws which we all have to suck up. " Do you have an example?

[marton]

	Quote:	Medea Fleecestealer
	Darn - quote thing don't seem to work any more. Sbrinz, but the EU won't change, that's the problem. And do we really want to continue to be part of an organisation that can't even get its accounts straight? "More than €133.6 billion of European Union budget payments last year were "affected by material error"… the European Court of Auditors fails to give the EU budget a clean bill of health for the 21st year running." The Times, 10 November 2015 "The European Court of Auditors (ECA) gave the budget a clean bill of health overall, but found that 4.4% was mis-spent - the budget "error rate"." BBC News, 10 November 2015 https://fullfact.org/europe/did-audi...ign-eu-budget/ There are too many layers for these things to go through for accurate accounting. The UK would be better being in charge of its own finances so we, the UK public, know where our money is going.

"The UK would be better being in charge of its own finances so we, the UK public, know where our money is going." Does anyone audit the UK Govt. Finances and where are their sign-offs?

[curley]

	Quote:	cyrus
	Again, not just talking about Europe, and also, AFAIK, Britain is not a member of the Shengen agreement, To my infuriation, I still need to go through 2 seperate passport checks to fly into the UK.

	Quote:
	They failed to declare the milk and hazelnuts in milk chocolate with hazelnuts. They failed to declare the milk in a piece of cheese. They failed to declare the wheat in a bread mix. I despair for the world, sometimes.

on the other hand in times of yoghurt with strawberry-flavour, ice-cream with vanilla-flavour etc. etc. younger people might just not expect those darn hazelnuts anymore?

[cyrus]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	It's landlords who will be effected, not so much 'home owners' or whatever people with a 5% deposit & a 30 plus mortgage are called. Labour historically does not like rich people.......... Top rates of tay were 84%, base rate 34% no doubt before you were working. National Insurance on top, yes the poor has one 44% deducted from earnings, rather like France today.

You dont know any people in the uk who rent out a place? I know shit loads of people who do. The atmosphere regarding that in the uk is toxic.

I sometimes want to pinch people in the face who claim that young people aren't commited as they were when they were young but don't realise that most young people can no longer afford to go out, and the uk govnmt just adjusted figures on inflation to take that out of accounts. Oh more people are staying in you say? That's obviously not because they have no spending money anymore.

Those problems have nothing to do with the EU, leaving the EU will not fix them.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	cyrus
	Tbh, I've been looking forward to applying for a swiss passport for years, but i'd still like it if it's easy to go back and my family don't starve. I've no confidence in the uk since it became the US lapdog in the thatcher and reagan era. Most of our problems exist from decisions made back then and the EU is just the latest scapegoat.

Your clearly too young to have any idea what it was like to live & work in the UK pre 1979.
Strike after strike
Base rate tax of 35%, it's 20% today.
You waited 6 months to get a fixed telephone at home
You could not leave the UK with more than £600 or use credit cards abroad.
High interest rates & inflation.

Standard of living in the UK is way higher than in 1979.

	Quote:	cyrus
	You dont know any people in the uk who rent out a place? I know shit loads of people who do. The atmosphere regarding that in the uk is toxic. I sometimes want to pinch people in the face who claim that young people aren't commited as they were when they were young but don't realise that most young people can no longer afford to go out, and the uk govnmt just adjusted figures on inflation to take that out of accounts. Oh more people are staying in you say? That's obviously not because they have no spending money anymore. Those problems have nothing to do with the EU, leaving the EU will not fix them.

So why do you friends do it if it's toxic, 14% base rates would kill then which was where we were when Margret Thatcher came to power.
High rents are largely caused by housing benefit, people will only pay what they can afford.

[cyrus]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Your clearly too young to have any idea what it was like to live & work in the UK pre 1979. Strike after strike Base rate tax of 35%, it's 20% today. You waited 6 months to get a fixed telephone at home You could not leave the UK with more than £600 or use credit cards abroad. High interest rates & inflation. Standard of living in the UK is way higher than in 1979. So why do you friends do it if it's toxic, 14% base rates would kill then which was where we were when Margret Thatcher came to power. High rents are largely caused by housing benefit, people will only pay what they can afford.

Standard of living rose, thanks to easy access to debt, no one is technicaly better off, they just have better access to debt.

[cyrus]

ugh, lets face it, for most uk citizens, they're more in debt than ever before, thatchers britain was bought on borrowed time. the uks hpusing problem is a timebomb waiting to happen, leaving the EU ain't gonna do all about it but possibly deny those who profit off it a reasonable excuse.

[cyrus]

And honestly, the kids of uk nowadays are worse offf then what you ever were, apart from world wars, they have to spend more money on the most basic of needs than ever before, and so they go out less, but nevermind, the uk middle class will spend just as much from the hard work of sitting around and earning money from property.