The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

	Quote:	Aeneas
	It might help if you prove some of your claims first. Then you'll have earned the right to demand proof from others.

i have never seen you before and suddenly you make that statement. simple response is wow - very good attempt to avoid the statement and answer the question

i stated why i think the eu is collapsing and you ignored it

	Quote:	Urs Max
	That's the most ironic thing I've heard in a long time. They wouldn't be here without their EU membership and the Bilaterale.

but that's not true. there are people here from all sorts of countries not in the eu. it's not all black and white and extremes. it will end up somewhere in the middle

this weekend is the next milestone with Austria. come Monday project europe could be breathing out again. italy as well

	Quote:	Zurichowl
	i have never seen you before and suddenly you make that statement. simple response is wow - very good attempt to avoid the statement and answer the question i stated why i think the eu is collapsing and you ignored it

So you can offer opinions but we have to prove it? Very fair.

	Quote:	Zurichowl
	that's the perception. tell me i'm wrong and prove it

	Quote:
	So you can offer opinions but we have to prove it? Very fair.

just answer the question baboon, that's all i ask

by the way i quite like that you're called baboon. very appropriate

just so you get it. i have stated an opinion and am looking to see if you can disprove it. so far it doesn't seem that you can.

	Quote:	Zurichowl
	.... 1. All creations of such large entities have eventually been destroyed in history and the same is happening now 2. i am more a fan of the swiss model with devolved power. 3. the people of europe are also suffering whilst the fat cats continue to award themselves large pay increases that's the perception. tell me i'm wrong and prove it

As you keep going on about this (again your opinion and certainly NOT fact) lets have a look. I've numbered for convenience.

1. The USA was still struggling on last I checked
2. The EU is highly devolved. It regulates where it has to to maintain fair competition between states (mainly around the single market) but otherwise is more involved in setting minimum standards around such trans-national matters as the environment. The principal of subsidiarity is enshrined in Article 5 of the Treaty of Rome
3. No idea what this has directly to do with the EU but anyway I would argue that Europe is generally the least bad part of the world in this respect. Particularly Central and Northern Europe. Particularly not the UK, although even there is it nowhere near as bad as the US. Social mobility data supports this view.

	Quote:	Zurichowl
	just answer the question baboon, that's all i ask by the way i quite like that you're called baboon. very appropriate just so you get it. i have stated an opinion and am looking to see if you can disprove it. so far it doesn't seem that you can.

It's a Blackadder reference in case you were wondering...

[Aeneas]

	Quote:	Zurichowl
	i have never seen you before and suddenly you make that statement. simple response is wow - very good attempt to avoid the statement and answer the question

I was responding to the rather hypocritical demand of proof from someone who appears to have been doing little more than soapboxing to date and then has the brass neck to demand proof of others. I'm addressing that and nothing else.

	Quote:
	i stated why i think the eu is collapsing and you ignored it

Stating something simply means you gave us your opinion. It carries no weight or credibility without supplying credible evidence. And given proof is what you demanded of others it would be nice if you started closer to home and do so yourself.

So are you going to back up any of your claims or can we simply conclude that you're simply giving us your opinion?

	Quote:	Blueangel
	I'm just asking really basic questions that I asked of the three people I know who voted Leave. I don't recall reading your posts back in June and your profile is blank, so I have absolutely no idea where your ideas on the subject come from. Of the three that I know, each had a different primary motivation. The one who voted Leave because he wanted laws and decision making to be returned solely to UK Parliament and judges, is the only one of the three who isn't up in arms about the triggering of Article 50 case going to the Supreme Court. He freely states that this process is exactly what he wanted to see happen, but in the same breath, he's immensely disappointed with the way May is handling Brexit so far. As soon as she mentioned Grammar schools, he was annoyed that she was diverting from the most important matter at hand. You will note that I've asked which industry you work in, not what your job is. There are industries that will have to make absolutely huge adjustments because of Brexit, and others that may benefit. The industry I came from, travel, is on tenterhooks, particularly with regards to the Open Skies Agreement. http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/...-a7431816.html Other industries have different concerns, such as the Financial services sector being concerned about passporting. If you beloeng to an indistry that has zero concerns regarding Brexit, I'd be interested to know what it is?

i work with multiple business sectors so cannot say. i'm not really concerned as one way or another they'll find a way. there's a lot of hot air at the moment. i quite like what May is doing, but can't predict what will happen. i voted out (but my vote was rejected!!!!) to give more decision making to the U.K.

	Quote:	Aeneas
	So are you going to back up any of your claims or can we simply conclude that you're simply giving us your opinion?

Seems to me we have another Phos. An appropriate name given that Owls, contrary to their literary image, are actually rather thick.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	Zurichowl
	by the way i quite like that you're called baboon. very appropriate

That's the second time you've made reference to his username within 24hrs, yet I still don't understand why you believe it to be appropriate. Perhaps you would care to enlighten me?

	Quote:	Blueangel
	That's the second time you've made reference to his username within 24hrs, yet I still don't understand why you believe it to be appropriate. Perhaps you would care to enlighten me?

It's OK...he's talking to the hand.....

	Quote:	Blueangel
	What is happening in the World in your view?

it's not just my view. it's what's happened. i answered the above question. now you answer mine. go on i dare you ;-)

	Quote:	Blueangel
	What is happening in the World in your view?

	Quote:
	Seems to me we have another Phos. An appropriate name given that Owls, contrary to their literary image, are actually rather thick.

as a baboon that's good. i was recently in a country with baboons. the locals mentioned them and everyone laughed. do continue ;-)

[Aeneas]

	Quote:	Zurichowl
	i work with multiple business sectors so cannot say. i'm not really concerned as one way or another they'll find a way. there's a lot of hot air at the moment.

You're actually contributing a lot of this hot air, TBH. Might I suggest you start a cult or just frequent those who would seek a similar logical bias to yourself, as they are more likely to accept your word as true without question than normal people.

	Quote:
	i voted out (but my vote was rejected!!!!) to give more decision making to the U.K.

Your vote was rejected? Are you not eighteen yet?

	Quote:	Blueangel
	That's the second time you've made reference to his username within 24hrs, yet I still don't understand why you believe it to be appropriate. Perhaps you would care to enlighten me?

In fairness we can all lose our cool and turn to ad hominems when frustrated. Of course, the quality - complexity, style and wit - of such ad hominems do say much about the issuer. The more pedestrian the ad hominem, the more pedestrian the issuer.

	Quote:	Zurichowl
	as a baboon that's good. i was recently in a country with baboons. the locals mentioned them and everyone laughed. do continue ;-)

Visiting family, I take it?

anyway, back OT - seems one of the plants - sorry Brexit ministers - is suggesting the UK could pay for single market access

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-market-access

Of course there is 0% chance of that without FMOP as well. Which Davis well knows.

[marton]

	Quote:	Zurichowl
	as a baboon that's good. i was recently in a country with baboons. the locals mentioned them and everyone laughed. do continue ;-)

Did the locals also have six fingers and play banjos?

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	Zurichowl
	it's not just my view. it's what's happened. i answered the above question. now you answer mine. go on i dare you ;-)

If you mean this question...

	Quote:	Zurichowl
	do you want my inside leg measurement as well?

...No thanks!

	Quote:
	Seems to me we have another Phos.

Is Phos being outPhosed?

[Blueangel]

As has become the custom in my house, when my OH gets home and we've shared the days news, he watches a snippet of the tv news. This usually dissolves into a rant in Greek from my OH, and 5 mins of him stomping around the apartment in a foul mood. When I ask him what the problem is, no matter what the actual reason is, he always says " Brexit!".

Having just seen the headlines from today's news, his rant for today is...
"They couldn't even organise a w***ing competition! Three pricks and not an erection between them!"

Now he's stomped off into the kitchen to make pizza, and though I hate to admitr it, his bad mood pizzas are always even more delicious than his happy mood pizzas.

	Quote:	marton
	for bojo every day is a new day; he is new born and has no need of consistency!

[MidfieldGeneral]

@ Zac Goldsmith