The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[Medea Fleecestealer]

	Quote:	marton
	"They're not going to turn off the power." There are more subtle ways to influence "the UK would just take their power stations off them" Without them agreeing? Then they would be sued for mega bucks, read the Norex and Yukos stories. The days of "send a gunboat" are long gone

Yes, it's called nationalisation, something Mr. Corben is quite keen on. And while the UK government may decide to compensate any companies if it did go down that route, I doubt it's enshrined in any law that they have to.

[marton]

	Quote:	Medea Fleecestealer
	Yes, it's called nationalisation, something Mr. Corben is quite keen on. And while the UK government may decide to compensate any companies if it did go down that route, I doubt it's enshrined in any law that they have to.

You did not read the "read the Norex and Yukos stories" did you?

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	I don't think you understand how business works. Do you know that Ovomaltine is owned by a UK company? And that Toblorone is American. What will the Swiss do?

Bit of a difference between a bit of chocolate and the national grid.

	Quote:	marton
	However Putin and the Middle East have demonstrated that owning the power supplies is a big political lever.

My query would be, with projects like the EastMed Pipeline nearing completion and possibly being extended in the future, will future diplomatic relations between China & Qatar and Russia affect the UK's power supply?

[Medea Fleecestealer]

	Quote:	marton
	You did not read the "read the Norex and Yukos stories" did you?

No, because you didn't provide any links.

Can find nothing about Norex that seems relevant and the Yukos was the Russian government running it into the ground to take over its assets. Not quite the same thing as nationalisation, is it?

I don't agree with Mr. Corbyn on much, but nationalising the rail and utilities sectors was just plain daft. Keep them, improve them and run them for a profit. And before you all snarl at that, why not for a profit? That way less government/public money would need to be put into them each year.

	Quote:	Urs Max
	Enron has proven this to be complete horsemanure. They deliberately created brownouts and even blackouts to drive electricity prices thru the roof. For some anything and everything goes as long as it increases profits - nothing personal bud, just their way of doing business.

And where are Enron now?

Any company that switches the power off will not be around for very long. This has entered the surreal world of Chemtrails.

The only blackouts Europe is likely to see will be as a result of idiotic green tariffs and the brainless decision to decommission every nuclear power station in Germany.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	And where are Enron now? Any company that switches the power off will not be around for very long. This has entered the surreal world of Chemtrails. The only blackouts Europe is likely to see will be as a result of idiotic green tariffs and the brainless decision to decommission every nuclear power station in Germany.

Whilst you might not be aware of rolling blackouts, which have (until very recently) been a regular feature of life in South Africa...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_Blackout

...you must have a short memory to not recall this...

	Quote:
	Putin's gas threat: What happens if Russia cuts the gas to Europe? Expert says: 'If there was a general shortage of gas across Europe, Britain would run short very soon'

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-10074294.html

	Quote:	Loz1983
	I don't think you understand how business works. Do you know that Ovomaltine is owned by a UK company? And that Toblorone is American. What will the Swiss do?

And I really think you do not get the point at all. It is very easy to live without Toblerone or Ovomaltine - a bugger to survive without water or energy supplies

How can you have 'your country and independence back' by making yourself totally dependent for essential supplies - pray tell ?

[Urs Max]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	And where are Enron now? Any company that switches the power off will not be around for very long. This has entered the surreal world of Chemtrails. The only blackouts Europe is likely to see will be as a result of idiotic green tariffs and the brainless decision to decommission every nuclear power station in Germany.

Keep moving the goalposts.

	Quote:
	And I really think you do not get the point at all. It is very easy to live without Toblerone or Ovomaltine - a bugger to survive without water or energy supplies How can you have 'your country and independence back' by making yourself totally dependent for essential supplies - pray tell ?

Stop confusing Loz by asking about facts.

	Quote:
	And I really think you do not get the point at all. It is very easy to live without Toblerone or Ovomaltine - a bugger to survive without water or energy supplies How can you have 'your country and independence back' by making yourself totally dependent for essential supplies - pray tell ?

"Totally dependent". There isn't a cable providing electricity from China you know?

What do you think is going to happen?

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	"Totally dependent". There isn't a cable providing electricity from China you know? What do you think is going to happen?

The submarine communication cables are alreay there and have been since 2000. It's only a matter of time and technology before something similar happens to power supplies.

http://submarinecables.blogspot.ch/2...ne-cables.html

There are already countries that sell their excess energy supply to neighbouring countries, and in the case of Canada to the US, they sell it at a loss because we don't have the technology to store wind power effectively yet...yet! My brother visited a huge wind farm near Port Elgin last year that is losing money in this way.

[Aeneas]

	Quote:	marton
	"Importing of cheap foreign labour" Is that really happening in the UK or just a perception.

I don't know, but I can't dismiss the claim either.

	Quote:
	There is a minimum wage law plus any foreigner here with a skilled worker visa (Tier 2) must earn at least £35,000 (almost triple minimum wage) or face being deported.

How many blue collar jobs earn minimum wage rates? Do plumbers, builders or electricians earn minimum wage?

Also you don't have to go down to minimum wage to undercut the local competition and by the time you get there you're in the 'black' economy anyway.

[marton]

	Quote:
	David Davis, Britain’s Brexit secretary, said he was “not really interested” in a transitional deal to cushion Britain from the effects of Brexit and that he would consider one only in order to “be kind” to the EU.

Source (might be behind a paywall)


"to “be kind” to the EU" LOL, he must be sitting in another dimension.
Which reminds me I completely forgot to program the new Red Dwarf series so am now waiting for repeats.

[marton]

	Quote:	Aeneas
	I don't know, but I can't dismiss the claim either. How many blue collar jobs earn minimum wage rates? Do plumbers, builders or electricians earn minimum wage? Also you don't have to go down to minimum wage to undercut the local competition and by the time you get there you're in the 'black' economy anyway.

"Do plumbers, builders or electricians earn minimum wage?" No, they are classed as skilled workers so if non-EU must be paid at least £35,000 per year or face being deported.

	Quote:	Blueangel
	The submarine communication cables are alreay there and have been since 2000. It's only a matter of time and technology before something similar happens to power supplies. http://submarinecables.blogspot.ch/2...ne-cables.html There are already countries that sell their excess energy supply to neighbouring countries, and in the case of Canada to the US, they sell it at a loss because we don't have the technology to store wind power effectively yet...yet! My brother visited a huge wind farm near Port Elgin last year that is losing money in this way.

Yes yes, but this has nothing to do with what Odile is implying in that there is some great international conspiracy to switch off the power and the UK is powerless to stop this happening. This is completely bonkers.

[marton]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	The submarine communication cables are alreay there and have been since 2000. It's only a matter of time and technology before something similar happens to power supplies. http://submarinecables.blogspot.ch/2...ne-cables.html There are already countries that sell their excess energy supply to neighbouring countries, and in the case of Canada to the US, they sell it at a loss because we don't have the technology to store wind power effectively yet...yet! My brother visited a huge wind farm near Port Elgin last year that is losing money in this way.

	Quote:
	Britain's main power link to France was partially severed during Storm Angus and will not be fixed until February, National Grid has revealed, exacerbating fears of a power crunch this winter. The Interconnexion France-Angleterre (IFA) link between Folkestone and Calais is Britain's biggest interconnector, allowing it to import up to 2 gigawatts of power from the continent to help keep the lights on when UK supplies run low. A fault developed on the interconnector on the morning of Sunday November 20th, as Storm Angus battered the UK.

Source

I suppose this power sharing agreement is another that will also have to reviewed during Brexit negotiations?

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	Aeneas
	I don't know, but I can't dismiss the claim either.

I do know of one instance where the labour wasn't specifically imported, but a bus of foreign 'agency' workers was brought in to provide labour during the strike action protesting the closure of the plant. What alarmed the manager left to instruct these people was the immense language barrier between herself and the workers, and also between the workers themselves, and the fact that some of these people were wearing ankle tags.

[marton]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Yes yes, but this has nothing to do with what Odile is implying in that there is some great international conspiracy to switch off the power and the UK is powerless to stop this happening. This is completely bonkers.

Moving the goalposts again!

Your precis of Odile's post is also "completely bonkers".

[Aeneas]

	Quote:	marton
	"Do plumbers, builders or electricians earn minimum wage?" No, they are classed as skilled workers so if non-EU must be paid at least £35,000 per year or face being deported.

That's not what I asked though.

I asked if they earn minimum wage. Indeed what relevance does minimum wage have to most jobs?

"Importing of cheap foreign labour" does not mean that it has to be at minimum wage levels, only that it has to be cheaper than the labour it will be competing with.

In this regard minimum wage is a red herring - indeed, the largest proponents of minimum wage tend to be those who, or who represent those that, are unaffected by it as they earn far above minimum wage - and does not address the claim of "importing of cheap foreign labour" at all.

	Quote:	marton
	Moving the goalposts again! Your precis of Odile's post is also "completely bonkers".

Then what is her point? She said they "they literally have us over a barrel". For the third time now, what is there to be worried about?