The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[amogles]

	Quote:	marton
	I am not sure about this. The latest SVP pronouncements seemed to be along the lines that they have "cold feet" about starting a new referendum. The people who collected signatures for an anti-MEI referendum seem to have decided to withdraw this if the MEI lite plan works out OK with the EU.

It may actually play into the SVP's hands if they make a lot of noise now but don't actually launch a new referendum.

Unless something pretty radical happens they would probably lose the referendum, and that would take a lot of wind out of their sails. But being able to point out how they were betrayed is going to be a real vote winner over the next couple of years and puts the SVP back into the underdog position.

[marton]

	Quote:	Medea Fleecestealer
	Nope, just announced if quotas aren't included in the new law by 9th Feb they'll launch a new initiative to dissolve the accord regarding Free Movement. "People’s Party cries foul Members of the conservative right Swiss People’s Party, which had proposed the February 2014 referendum on quotas, argued up until the final vote that the latest parliamentary proposal violates the Constitution because it does not contain quotas and therefore fails to apply the will of the people. The People’s Party has said that if cabinet does not intervene by February 9 with a version of the law conforming to the 2014 initiative, it will launch a new initiative “as soon as possible” to dissolve the bilateral accord with the European Union concerning the free movement of people." http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/new-immi...urdle/42769316

And here we have "SVP won’t call referendum on mass immigration initiative" according to Party president Albert Rösti on 8th December.

	Quote:
	“We made a clear decision at a party leadership meeting not to call a referendum,” Rösti told the programme. “We would be asking people to vote on something that would achieve nothing,” he said, referring to opposition in parliament to implementing tough immigration quotas.

Source

Great letter in the FT. Nails it.

[marton]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Great letter in the FT. Nails it.

Sadly nothing in this letter about how to improve our situation; just "Leaver" moaning! Makes a change from "Remoaners"

From the FT too:

So, this is how the debate reads so far. I kid you not, it’s practically verbatim:

Remainers (left holding the Brexit baby after the Leavers… left) “WTF?”

Leavers “We voted Brexit, now You Remainers need to implement it”

Remainers “But it’s not possible!”

Leavers “The People Have Spoken. Therefore it is possible. You just have to think positively.”

Remainers “And do what exactly?”

Leavers “Come up with a Plan that will leave us all better off outside the EU than in it”

Remainers “But it’s not possible!”

Leavers “Quit with the negative vibes. The People Have Spoken.”

Remainers “But even you don’t know how!”

Leavers “That’s your problem, we’ve done our bit and voted, we’re going to sit here and eat popcorn and watch as you do it.”

Remainers “Shouldn’t you do it?”

Leavers “It’s not up to us to work out the detail, it’s up to you experts.”

Remainers “I thought you’d had enough of experts”

Leavers “Remain experts.”

Remainers “There are no Leave experts”

Leavers “Then you’ll have to do it then. Oh, and by the way, no dragging your feet or complaining about it, because if you do a deal we don’t want, we’ll eat you alive.”

Remainers “But you don’t know what you want!”

Leavers “We want massive economic growth, no migration, free trade with the EU and every other country, on our terms, the revival of British industry, re-open the coal mines, tea and vicars on every village green, some bunting, and maybe restoration of the empire.”

Remainers “You’re delusional.”

Leavers “We’re a delusional majority. DEMOCRACY! So do the thing that isn’t possible, very quickly, and give all Leavers what they want, even though they don’t know what they want, and ignore the 16 million other voters who disagree. They’re tight trouser latte-sipping hipsters who whine all the time, who cares.”

By Ishtar Ostaria
Source: ft.com

[me.anon]

	Quote:
	From the FT too: So, this is how the debate reads so far. I kid you not, it’s practically verbatim: . . . Remainers “But you don’t know what you want!” Leavers “We want massive economic growth, no migration, free trade with the EU and every other country, on our terms, the revival of British industry, re-open the coal mines, tea and vicars on every village green, some bunting, and maybe restoration of the empire.” . . . By Ishtar Ostaria Source: ft.com

Not only all that. The changes resulting from preparations for the integration in the common market (now renamed to EEC) must also be systematically rooted out and eliminated.
One of the worst decisions in this regard was to adopt decimal currency in 1971. This is where the economic rot set in.
Of course, at the moment with the pound sterling projected to plummet even further in value, the reintroduction of crowns, florins, shillings and pennies will not make a big difference, since the pound is of such little value that it can hardly be subdivided, and peoples main preoccuption will be anyway securing access to a large wheel barrow to cart bundles of notes around to pay for essential groceries.
However, in the fullness of time, no doubt several zeros will be shaved off the currency to bring it down once again to manageable units, and that would be the appropriate time to finally readopt the original £sd (Pounds Shillings Pence).

Did anyone watch 'Have I go news for you' last night. A proper giggle, with Gary Lineker as host. First Nicky Morgan's leather handbag in her place as she refused to take part last minute - and then that hilarious dig at the oldies who voted leave in droves:

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/744...BC-Theresa-May

and they are not happy about it.

Great British humour- and as an Oldie Odile and OH (70 and 65) who voted remain- loved it

	Quote:
	Did anyone watch 'Have I go news for you' last night. A proper giggle, with Gary Lineker as host. First Nicky Morgan's leather handbag in her place as she refused to take part last minute - and then that hilarious dig at the oldies who voted leave in droves: http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/744...BC-Theresa-May and they are not happy about it. Great British humour- and as an Oldie Odile and OH (70 and 65) who voted remain- loved it

People complaining that old people stole their future with Brexit should remember:

People over 90 fought a World War.
People over 75 suffered the blitz.
People over 60 lived under rationing.

There wouldn't have been a future without them.

Oh no, here we go again

[SOBEIT]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	People complaining that old people stole their future with Brexit should remember: People over 90 fought a World War. People over 75 suffered the blitz. People over 60 lived under rationing. There wouldn't have been a future without them.

Here here, Couldn't have put it better.

[marton]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	People complaining that old people stole their future with Brexit should remember: People over 90 fought a World War. People over 75 suffered the blitz. People over 60 lived under rationing. There wouldn't have been a future without them.

"People over 90 fought a World War.
People over 75 suffered the blitz.
People over 60 lived under rationing. "

Mathematics is not your strong point is it?
Some people over 81 fought a World War. Both UK and Germany conscripted people of 16 and younger.
People over 62 lived under rationing, rationing finished in 1954.

Anyway that did not entitle them to ruin the UK!

[SOBEIT]

	Quote:	marton
	"People over 90 fought a World War. People over 75 suffered the blitz. People over 60 lived under rationing. " Mathematics is not your strong point is it? Some people over 81 fought a World War. Both UK and Germany conscripted people of 16 and younger. People over 62 lived under rationing, rationing finished in 1954. Anyway that did not entitle them to ruin the UK!

Did I miss something, where is the ruin?

[marton]

	Quote:	SOBEIT
	Did I miss something, where is the ruin?

Mislaid your spectacles again?

[SOBEIT]

	Quote:	marton
	Mislaid your spectacles again?

Great Britain - BAU.

	Quote:	marton
	Mislaid your spectacles again?

No-one has forgotten the sacrifice our parents and grand-parents made, great grand-parents for some ... but truly I don't expect my adult children and grand-children to forever have to feel guilty about this, and have to pay the price. We have to look to their future. Many would say WW2 the heavy price paid was for peace in Europe and collaboration, not war (as for WWI - I still do not know why those 100 000s young men died for).

[marton]

	Quote:
	No-one has forgotten the sacrifice our parents and grand-parents made, great grand-parents for some ... but truly I don't expect my adult children and grand-children to forever have to feel guilty about this, and have to pay the price. We have to look to their future. Many would say WW2 the heavy price paid was for peace in Europe and collaboration, not war (as for WWI - I still do not know why those 100 000s young men died for).

"as for WWI - I still do not know why those 100 000s young men died for" Nobody knows; it is one of the great mysteries. Nobody has ever been able to explain what WW1 was about!

"No-one has forgotten the sacrifice our parents ...." The reality is that WW2 was won by the USA and there seems to be precious little gratitude

[fatmanfilms]

Article 50 may have already been triggered
http://uk.businessinsider.com/jo-mau...6-12?r=US&IR=T

[marton]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Article 50 may have already been triggered http://uk.businessinsider.com/jo-mau...6-12?r=US&IR=T

Indeed.
As I have posted several times the whole Brexit thing is a legal nightmare not helped by the way Art. 50 was drafted.

For example, even simple commercial contracts have clauses like "notice must be given in a written form by registered post...."; Nothing similar in Art. 50

And the condition that any notice must comply with the country's constitution could mean anything

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Article 50 may have already been triggered http://uk.businessinsider.com/jo-mau...6-12?r=US&IR=T

Yes, but unlike the U.K., the Irish Supreme Court is not obliged to take the case. I expect their honors will simply state that it is of no constitutional interest to Ireland (since we have a procedure), oh and BTW thanks for the £70k in expenses

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	marton
	Indeed. As I have posted several times the whole Brexit thing is a legal nightmare not helped by the way Art. 50 was drafted. For example, even simple commercial contracts have clauses like "notice must be given in a written form by registered post...."; Nothing similar in Art. 50 And the condition that any notice must comply with the country's constitution could mean anything

On the contrary, the U.K. has been delivering it's formal position to the EU for over 40 years, it is fair to assume they know how it works.

On the constitutional issue that purely a matter for the U.K., it is not the EU's fault the the U.K. choose to have an unwritten form of government.