The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[marton]

	Quote:	Rob
	The significance of Nuttall giving a false address on his nomination form: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...dress-offence/ Basically he has to put the address that he was living at at the time of nomination on the form. As in the article above making a false statement on a declaration form is seen as serious and can lead to jail time. Nuttall wouldn't be the first kipper sent down for this kind of thing. Quite a few have ended up in prison for making false statements, usually forging electors signatures (you need 10 signatures from people living in the constituency to be able to stand)

If Nuttall gets a criminal record then he will never be granted a visa to visit Farage's mate in the Oval Office

[StirB]

	Quote:	marton
	If Nuttall gets a criminal record then he will never be granted a visa to visit Farage's mate in the Oval Office

Farage will have to come back and lead UKIP again...just when he thought he was out, they pull him back in!

[fatmanfilms]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/...ranc-steroids/

Sterling may become Swiss Franc on Steroids
The sun may start shining, shame Odile has me on ignore

[marton]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/...ranc-steroids/ Sterling may become Swiss Franc on Steroids The sun may start shining, shame Odile has me on ignore

Let us hope Sterling will rise again

[marton]

	Quote:
	Parliament will get a final vote on Theresa May's Brexit deal before it is agreed with the EU, the Government has conceded. David Jones, the Brexit minister, said the vote will would be on the "final draft" of the agreement, which covers withdrawal from the EU. This significant climb down on the Article 50 Bill comes amid fears that around 12 Tory MPs could vote this afternoon for an amendment tabled by the opposition. The amendment would force Mrs May to give MPs the chance to shape the final deal rather than the take it or leave it vote the Prime Minister has offered to the House already.

This whole business has been a slow but steady retreat by May

Source

Looks like the Govt. are already backing down on what this new concession really means

[Sbrinz]

Analysis of voting patterns on the Brexit Referendum http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-38762034

[Odile]

Today, this admission:

it's HUGE, as he says:

Buried in a 19,800 word Spectator essay written by former online editor and Vote Leave director Dominic Cummings is an admission: The Brexit referendum was won by lying to the public.

The piece, found here, is well worth reading but also falls victim to classic mansplaining of a complex issue with many words wasted on prose that most politicians would be proud of, working around the subject rather than delving in to the heart of it.

Of course, that’s for a very good reason, because at the heart of the vote to leave the European Union is an entanglement of lies and propagandist sensationalism that even the most brave souls wouldn’t dare admit to.

There is the admission that the NHS wouldn’t really take back our £350 million EU fee, and that immigration wouldn’t really be capped, and that standards of living wouldn’t really change if we left the EU. All of which are matters that the general public voted on, and all are incorrect.

And so to the damning paragraph that outs the Leave Campaign for what it was:

Pundits and MPs kept saying ‘why isn’t Leave arguing about the economy and living standards’. They did not realise that for millions of people, £350m/NHS was about the economy and living standards – that’s why it was so effective. It was clearly the most effective argument not only with the crucial swing fifth but with almost every demographic. Even with UKIP voters it was level-pegging with immigration. Would we have won without immigration? No. Would we have won without £350m/NHS? All our research and the close result strongly suggests No. Would we have won by spending our time talking about trade and the Single Market? No way.

http://www.thelondoneconomic.com/new...-public/08/02/

[Medea Fleecestealer]

Brexit Bill clears the Commons.

"The Brexit bill clears the Commons by 494 votes to 122 as Labour frontbencher Clive Lewis quits."

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-38902484

[k_and_e]

	Quote:	Odile
	Buried in a 19,800 word Spectator essay written by former online editor and Vote Leave director Dominic Cummings is an admission: The Brexit referendum was won by lying to the public.

this must be the first referendum in history that was not won by a majority of votes but by lying. amazing.

[Rob]

	Quote:	k_and_e
	this must be the first referendum in history that was not won by a majority of votes but by lying. amazing.

Unfortunately it is quite common. Look at the posters that the SVP put out for the referendum on Sunday for instance, also the MEI was a pack of lies.

[Pachyderm]

	Quote:	Odile
	http://www.thelondoneconomic.com/new...-public/08/02/

No promise was made to give £350m to the NHS. If I say "Let's give some money to charity" or "Let's go for a walk", I'm not making any pledge or promise. I'm simply making a suggestion; expressing an aspiration. "Let's fund the NHS instead" is simply saying "Let's do something better with the money than give it to the EU". It could just have easily been "Let's spend the money on education" or "Let's invest more in British industry" or anything else.

Second, I'd make the obvious point that we are still paying the money to the EU, and until we stop, and divert it elsewhere, we don't actually know what it will be spent on. It seems certain that some will indeed go to the NHS, but there are plenty of other initiatives that deserve funding too.

[k_and_e]

	Quote:	Rob
	Unfortunately it is quite common. Look at the posters that the SVP put out for the referendum on Sunday for instance, also the MEI was a pack of lies.

but isn't any propaganda a pack of lies or alternative facts or a colored version of the truth? still, in the end, all that counts is the number of votes.

[Urs Max]

	Quote:	k_and_e
	but isn't any propaganda a pack of lies or alternative facts or a colored version of the truth?

I'd say that comes close to a definition of the term. However far from all political debate, information and arguments fall into that category.

	Quote:	Medea Fleecestealer
	Brexit Bill clears the Commons. "The Brexit bill clears the Commons by 494 votes to 122 as Labour frontbencher Clive Lewis quits." http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-38902484

All cleared and with no amendments. Now let's get on with it.

Oh, and Gina Miller can now finally pi$$ off.

[marton]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	All cleared and with no amendments. Now let's get on with it. Oh, and Gina Miller can now finally pi$$ off.

I recommend she should wait until it clears the House of Lords too

[st2lemans]

	Quote:	Rob
	Unfortunately it is quite common. Look at the posters that the SVP put out for the referendum on Sunday for instance, also the MEI was a pack of lies.

Doesn't matter, we still voted 7x NO.

Tom

	Quote:	marton
	I recommend she should wait until it clears the House of Lords too

The undemocratic House of Lords acting undemocratically. Well if they do, there's always this. Time the House of Lords were abolished anyway.

If anyone wants a good laugh have a read of this sob story in the Graun. First comment pretty much sums it up.

All the Remainers were so happy when Gina Miller won her court case. "A victory for democracy" they called it. A waste of time would have been a better description. The bill is exactly the same as if it would have been put through via Royal Prerogative.

[Medea Fleecestealer]

I disagree. I think the Lords can provide a longer term view on issues that often makes the government think again. And anyway, many are ex-politicans and still likely vote on party lines. Threatening them with abolishment if they don't "toe the government line" was totally unnecessary.

	Quote:	Medea Fleecestealer
	I disagree. I think the Lords can provide a longer term view on issues that often makes the government think again. And anyway, many are ex-politicans and still likely vote on party lines. Threatening them with abolishment if they don't "toe the government line" was totally unnecessary.

The Lords are the political elite. Unelected and unnecessary. If 650 MPs can vote on something, why is the opinion of 800 Lords required? It shouldn't take Brexit to have rid of them, they should have been gone years ago.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	The Lords are the political elite. Unelected and unnecessary. If 650 MPs can vote on something, why is the opinion of 800 Lords required? It shouldn't take Brexit to have rid of them, they should have been gone years ago.

The House of Lords are to protect from a run away government, being the people voted they should not interfere. If the do then it's an abuse of their position & time to end their privileges.