The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[lewton]

	Quote:	Medea Fleecestealer
	Why should emergency medical care negate the free range labelling? It's not the farmers' fault the government had to issue such instructions due to a medical emergency. That should be an exception to the regulations on free range labelling requirements.

Get out of the EU!
Bad EU is forcing farmers to label their products honestly.

[adrianlondon]

"Free-range-wannabes-allowed-to-look-out-of-the-window-to-see-what-they're-missing eggs"

[Urs Max]

	Quote:	Medea Fleecestealer
	I just think there should be provision in the rules to allow for such things. Is that too much to ask?

It only applies after 12 weeks.
Without time limitation free range would simply lose its meaning

Medea, how many people do you know fairly well, or are relatives of yours, who are directly negatively affected by this EU directive?

[Medea Fleecestealer]

	Quote:	Urs Max
	It only applies after 12 weeks. Without time limitation free range would simply lose its meaning Medea, how many people do you know fairly well, or are relatives of yours, who are directly negatively affected by this EU directive?

The eggs were being sold as free range when in fact the hens were couped up in their barns (since December according to the article). But after 12 weeks they're suddenly no longer considered free range, even though they're being kept in exactly the same conditions as the previous 12 weeks. If that doesn't convince you the rule is then I don't know what will.

Absolutely no one.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	UK shop prices fall 1% year on year. I mentioned earlier in the thread that exchange rate is fairly irrelevant to shop prices as goods are sold at what the market will bear, rather than the cost of the goods.

Right so according to your perspective even if they have to do so Irish farmers will continue to export about €20b worth of produce every year to the UK even if they have to do so at a cost to them...ya good luck with that!

Exchange rates do impact the cost of goods in the shop, it just takes longer for it to be reflected in consumer prices because of forward exchange rate contracts, a willingness by distributors to absorb the cost difference in the short term and so on. But eventually one of two things happens either prices go up or those products become unavailable in the market.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	Right so according to your perspective even if they have to do so Irish farmers will continue to export about €20b worth of produce every year to the UK even if they have to do so at a cost to them...ya good luck with that! Exchange rates do impact the cost of goods in the shop, it just takes longer for it to be reflected in consumer prices because of forward exchange rate contracts, a willingness by distributors to absorb the cost difference in the short term and so on. But eventually one of two things happens either prices go up or those products become unavailable in the market.

Well I believe Ireland uses the Euro & they clearly are still supplying the UK so probably only getting €17b now Had they retained the £ it would be less of a shock today.
Very few companies can increase their costs in line with inflation, this is particularly true for 'commodity' goods. I don't think English care where the goods come from so the Irish may have to eat their own goods if they don't absorb their loss.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Well I believe Ireland uses the Euro & they clearly are still supplying the UK so probably only getting €17b now Had they retained the £ it would be less of a shock today.

On the contrary, Ireland's position today has dramatically changed since those days. The UK is not longer the over all major market at this point it is a toss up between it and Belgium.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Very few companies can increase their costs in line with inflation, this is particularly true for 'commodity' goods.

And the consequences is that the eventually go out of business...

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	And the consequences is that the eventually go out of business...

Sure thats normal business, survival of the fittest. Just think of the no of Airlines that have gone bust. In 1960 an airfare from Paris to New York cost $1,000, pilots salaries, planes & the cost of fuel has risen several fold without being able to pass on those costs to the customer. A seat in a plane is a commodity item, just like the food Irish farmers want to sell. No one cares where it comes from or the name of the airline, they just want the price to be low.

[marton]

Peers decide by 102 majority in favour of amendment demanding proposals to protect EU nationals in UK after Brexit

Source

So now it goes back to the Commons and if they reject then it bounces back to the Lords and if they stick with the vote then back to the Commons and so on ad infinitum.

Source

[Urs Max]

	Quote:	Medea Fleecestealer
	The eggs were being sold as free range when in fact the hens were couped up in their barns (since December according to the article). But after 12 weeks they're suddenly no longer considered free range, even though they're being kept in exactly the same conditions as the previous 12 weeks. If that doesn't convince you the rule is then I don't know what will. Absolutely no one.

I agree, the 12 weeks are too much. But better that than no limit at all.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Well I believe Ireland uses the Euro & they clearly are still supplying the UK so probably only getting €17b now Had they retained the £ it would be less of a shock today. Very few companies can increase their costs in line with inflation, this is particularly true for 'commodity' goods. I don't think English care where the goods come from so the Irish may have to eat their own goods if they don't absorb their loss.

'Commodity' goods are priced according to the world market, not just the UK. If the GB£ falls, the price of that commodity in GB£ will increase accordingly.

There's more to the world than just the UK you know.

	Quote:	marton
	Peers decide by 102 majority in favour of amendment demanding proposals to protect EU nationals in UK after Brexit Source So now it goes back to the Commons and if they reject then it bounces back to the Lords and if they stick with the vote then back to the Commons and so on ad infinitum. Source

Unelected Lords ruling over elected government to protect unelected EU.

p.s. for ad infinitum, read one year.

[marton]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Unelected Lords ruling over elected government to protect unelected EU. p.s. for ad infinitum, read one year.

Unelected? so what!

The people who voted in the referendum were also unelected?

Nothing new here!

[amogles]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Sure thats normal business, survival of the fittest. Just think of the no of Airlines that have gone bust. In 1960 an airfare from Paris to New York cost $1,000, pilots salaries, planes & the cost of fuel has risen several fold without being able to pass on those costs to the customer. A seat in a plane is a commodity item, just like the food Irish farmers want to sell. No one cares where it comes from or the name of the airline, they just want the price to be low.

In the case of the airlines, the price drop is not purely due to greedy shareholders backing down and wanting less profit. That may have happened, but by far the bigger part of the savings is due to efficiency. Compare for example today's online booking systems to the 1960s when you went to a travel agent and the travel agent phoned a broker and things got written down in ledgers. Or compare how much more efficient turnaround times have become. Virtually all branches of the economy have to some degree seen rationalization and become more efficient. This is why we have more money to spend on cr#p than our parents did.

[Sbrinz]

	Quote:	Medea Fleecestealer
	Here's an EU rule we can do without. "Millions of UK eggs will temporarily lose their free range status after hens were forced to spend weeks inside barns as part of emergency bird flu measures. Since December, poultry has had to be kept indoors under government orders to prevent the spread of the disease. Under European Union rules, if birds have been housed for more than 12 weeks they cannot be marketed as free range." http://www.bbc.com/news/business-39110992

On breakfast TV (maybe it was yesterday) they showed the free range egg boxes which are now carrying a coloured sticker, stating the free ranging hens are being kept temporarily in their barns for their own good welfare.

[Sbrinz]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Unelected Lords ruling over elected government to protect unelected EU. p.s. for ad infinitum, read one year.

Loz, I would normally put you on my ignore list, but then I wouldn't see your amazing posts, amusing for all the wrong reasons...

[Urs Max]

	Quote:	baboon
	'Commodity' goods are priced according to the world market, not just the UK. If the GB£ falls, the price of that commodity in GB£ will increase accordingly.

If they're exported. While in the country local/national price levels rule. The difference is made up for by tarriffs and subsidies, direct payments and other means. Even today and under WTO rules.

	Quote:	Urs Max
	If they're exported. While in the country local/national price levels rule. The difference is made up for by tarriffs and subsidies, direct payments and other means. Even today and under WTO rules.

Still doesn't affect the underlying price, though. If you have a barrel of oil, you're going to sell that for its market value of ~$55 regardless. Buying in GB£, that $55 has jumped from £40 to £46. Roughly.

Tarriffs etc. then come on top but you can't get away from the underlying £6 increase.

[Slaphead]

	Quote:	marton
	Peers decide by 102 majority in favour of amendment demanding proposals to protect EU nationals in UK after Brexit Source So now it goes back to the Commons and if they reject then it bounces back to the Lords and if they stick with the vote then back to the Commons and so on ad infinitum. Source

I am of the opinion that it should be "if you're in then you're in". However what the Lords fail to realise is that this needs to be on the table as part of the breakup deal.

If this is already included in the bill, then it offers no protection for UK citizens working and living in the EU - The EU could simply say thanks for looking after our citizens, but you can have yours back.

No. While I wholeheartedly support the rights of EU citizens to remain in the UK, this will need to be negotiated to ensure the rights of UK citizens in the EU as well.

[Reb77Br]

I wonder why Labour peers weren't required to toe the government line on the EU citizens issue too.

Corbyn actively works with May to force through hard Brexit

"The Labour leader whipped his peers into voting against an amendment to the Article 50 vote which would have demanded that the prime minister keep the UK in the single market. ... The amendment was defeated by 299 vote to 136."