The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[22 yards]

	Quote:	lewton
	To add to the insult, if shortly after a Brexit countries like Denmark, Sweden, Poland or the Czech Republic (we can call it Czechia now?) follow suit and exit the EU, I am convinced that one of tho things will happen: 1. the EU will die all together 2. the EU will get itself fixed Both of these two things are better than what we have today. So I am willing to risk it. So dear Brits, please vote out.

In what way are Denmark, Sweden, Poland and the Czech Republic alike -- apart from all being in the EU?

[lewton]

	Quote:	22 yards
	In what way are Denmark, Sweden, Poland and the Czech Republic alike -- apart from all being in the EU?

Let's not discuss the specific countries in this thread.
Let's just say that if Brexit happens a bunch of other countries might want to follow Britain out of the club.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	lewton
	To add to the insult, if shortly after a Brexit countries like Denmark, Sweden, Poland or the Czech Republic (we can call it Czechia now?) follow suit and exit the EU, I am convinced that one of tho things will happen: 1. the EU will die all together 2. the EU will get itself fixed Both of these two things are better than what we have today. So I am willing to risk it. So dear Brits, please vote out.

No! Absolutely no!

I've offered facts in this thread that you may have glanced over, though I doubt it.

Even if I had a single doubt in my mind about staying in the EU, the factor that would most prevent me from voting that way is the absolute shower of ****heads both in the UK and abroad who are behind the campaign. I've been familiar with these people and their political lives for many years, and to be frank, wouldn't **** on them if they were burning! They Leave campaign couldn't have lined up a group of people more reprehensible to me on every other polical matter, so I'd never side with them on this one in a million years.

Le Pen and Wilders want to come to the UK to campaign for Brexit.

Golden Dawn members were intimidating EU MP's a few weeks ago in Brussels.

FOP are on the rise again in Austria.
I remember when Haider was all over the news in the mid 90's (I was in Salzburg at the time). I remember the EU sanctions against Austria that the EU imposed when he became successful.

And now the far right want the UK to lead the way in breaking up the EU?!!!

Nah! Not happening!

[lewton]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	No! Absolutely no! I've offered facts in this thread that you may have glanced over, though I doubt it. Even if I had a single doubt in my mind about staying in the EU, the factor that would most prevent me from voting that way is the absolute shower of ****heads both in the UK and abroad who are behind the campaign. I've been familiar with these people and their political lives for many years, and to be frank, wouldn't **** on them if they were burning! They Leave campaign couldn't have lined up a group of people more reprehensible to me on every other polical matter, so I'd never side with them on this one in a million years. Le Pen and Wilders want to come to the UK to campaign for Brexit. Golden Dawn members were intimidating EU MP's a few weeks ago in Brussels. FOP are on the rise again in Austria. I remember when Haider was all over the news in the mid 90's (I was in Salzburg at the time). I remember the EU sanctions against Austria that the EU imposed when he became successful. And now the far right want the UK to lead the way in breaking up the EU?!!! Nah! Not happening!

Unless the EU changes, you will soon have Le Pen and the other guys you mention running European countries.
Then we'll see if the Brexiters are the worst bunch of people.

[Troublawesome]

I would see the chance of LePen ruling France is about the same as Brexit.

[greenmount]

Am I the only one who thinks that lewton plays the devil's advocate here?
Not that I wouldn't like the British get what they want, mind.

[lewton]

	Quote:	Troublawesome
	I would see the chance of LePen ruling France is about the same as Brexit.

I disagree.
One is almost certain to happen, the other we'll know soon.

[Dougal's Breakfast]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	I remember the EU sanctions against Austria that the EU imposed when he became successful.

Sanctions? Sanctions for what?

[curley]

	Quote:	lewton
	Let's not discuss the specific countries in this thread. Let's just say that if Brexit happens a bunch of other countries might want to follow Britain out of the club.

which would be bad because.....?

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	Dougal's Breakfast
	Sanctions? Sanctions for what?

This is the best description of events I can find from what I remember, but the whole article is worth a read.

	Quote:
	The rise of the Freedom Party in Austria was seen as a different matter - particularly after the previous governing parties opened the door to Mr. Haider by failing to resurrect their former broad-based coalition. The populist, demagogic Mr. Haider had engaged in bullying rhetoric, enflamed anti-foreign sentiment, and accepted at least part of neo-Nazi revisionism. Many in the rest of Europe were horrified at the prospect that such a party would join the government, essentially as an equal partner.

http://www.europeaninstitute.org/ind...ons-for-the-eu

And in tonight's news...

	Quote:
	Microsoft comes out in support of remaining in the EU in a letter to its 5,000 UK employees

http://www.itv.com/news/2016-05-17/microsoft-comes-out-in-support-of-remaining-in-the-eu-in-a-letter-to-its-5-000-uk-employees/

[Dougal's Breakfast]

Thanks for that.

Looks like yet another reason to vote OUT.

[lewton]

	Quote:	lewton
	Let's not discuss the specific countries in this thread. Let's just say that if Brexit happens a bunch of other countries might want to follow Britain out of the club.

	Quote:	curley
	which would be bad because.....?

You think I think this would be bad because.....?

[amogles]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	FOP are on the rise again in Austria. I remember when Haider was all over the news in the mid 90's (I was in Salzburg at the time). I remember the EU sanctions against Austria that the EU imposed when he became successful.

The Austrian FPÖ had entered its spiral of terminal decline and was well on its way to political irrelavance when Merkel gave it a wonderful birthday present by saying "das schaffen wir". I was travelling in Oberösterreich at the time of the election campaign there and the reactions were furious.

So yes, with Myopic Angela in power, expect more radcialization and provocation throughout Europe. Das schafft Merkel.

[Dougal's Breakfast]

With a bit of luck, Mr Cameron will invite Mrs Merkel to speak for the Remain campaign.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	Dougal's Breakfast
	Thanks for that. Looks like yet another reason to vote OUT.

You're the same as me in that nothing will convince you to even question your persuasion in this referendum. We're opposite sides of the same coin. That, I can respect.

My only question to you would be...would you ever vote for a far right party? I don't mean UKIP, I mean something akin to FPO? Simple 'yes' or 'no' would suffice. In the interests of clarity, it would be helpful.

[LuvSwissGermanAndItalian]

	Quote:	22 yards
	In what way are Denmark, Sweden, Poland and the Czech Republic alike -- apart from all being in the EU?

Denmark and Sweden are the richest and least corrupt countries in Western Europe, while Portugal and Greece are the poorest and more corrupt in Western Europe.

Same thing in Eastern Europe:
Poland and Czech Republic are the richest (still much poorer than DK or S) while Romania and Bulgaria are extremely poor and very corrupt where many crimes are rarely punished. These are some of the reasons why the latter two countries won't be joining the Schengen zone and Eurozone any time soon, most likely never!

[Dougal's Breakfast]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	You're the same as me in that nothing will convince you to even question your persuasion in this referendum. We're opposite sides of the same coin. That, I can respect.

This isn't true, but I can't be bothered to argue about it if that's what you think.

	Quote:
	My only question to you would be...would you ever vote for a far right party? I don't mean UKIP, I mean something akin to FPO? Simple 'yes' or 'no' would suffice. In the interests of clarity, it would be helpful.

My political leanings are irrelevant.


What is relevant is the fact that several foreign countries made use of the mechanisms of the European Union to interfere in the internal politics of a sovereign state.


This, to me, is the prime reason to vote for the United Kingdom to leave the European Union. It is simply antidemocratic.


Sure, this time it was a far-right party. Next time it could be a democratically elected communist party or green party. It doesn't make any difference to me. The internal politics of sovereign states are no business of what was sold to the British people as a "common market".

[PaddyG]

I saw a recent video of Tony Benn advocating leaving the EU as it is simply undemocratic. I'd hardly call him a far-right loon. That's pretty much my stance on the matter; I really don't give a donkey's about immigration and I believe business will recover after a hiccup, but the EU is one of the most corrupt, authoritarian institutions in the world and needs to be shown the door.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	PaddyG
	I saw a recent video of Tony Benn advocating leaving the EU as it is simply undemocratic.

How recent? He died two years ago!

[Dougal's Breakfast]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	How recent? He died two years ago!

The Maastricht Treaty was signed more than 20 years ago.