The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	marton
	"Those import tariffs don't stop the Swiss buying foreign meat in CH." This is because local Swiss meat has astronomic prices! Quick google search; Rump steak Coop 100g CHF 8.96 Rump Steak Tesco 100g £1.54 (say CHF 1.90) Even with a 40% tariff British rump steak would still be less than a third of Swiss prices

Switzerland imposes an extremely high tariff, yet is the most successful country in Europe, despite not being a member of the EU. However you think the UK would sink with far lower tariffs........ scratching my head here.

[lewton]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Switzerland imposes an extremely high tariff, yet is the most successful country in Europe, despite not being a member of the EU. However you think the UK would sink with far lower tariffs........ scratching my head here.

Switzerland is enjoying the benefits of the common market so not really comparable.
The UK would arguably have a bright future outside the EU but inside the single market. I believe pretty much everybody agrees on that.

The big question is what will happen when the UK loses access to the single market.
I am not convinced that its economy will collapse or anything that dire.
But using Switzerland as an example does not strengthen your argument.

[newtoswitz]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Switzerland imposes an extremely high tariff, yet is the most successful country in Europe, despite not being a member of the EU. However you think the UK would sink with far lower tariffs........ scratching my head here.

I think it would be a bit of a shock to the UK.

Imagine all the expat moans we see here about stuff being seasonal or ridiculously priced, or not being able to get Branston Pickle (or Worcester Sauce, which is now not made in the UK ) etc etc. - times 50 million.

But it would be positive environmentally and from a sustainability viewpoint.

[Odile]

Ecologically more sustainable to import and export from the other side of the world rather than to and from our closest neighbours. Sure

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	Odile
	Ecologically more sustainable to import and export from the other side of the world rather than to and from our closest neighbours. Sure

In reality is whichever is cheaper. Cars have been shipped from Japan for many years & pretty much everything comes from China today, including frozen chicken sold in Migros.

[rainer_d]

	Quote:	Odile
	Ecologically more sustainable to import and export from the other side of the world rather than to and from our closest neighbours. Sure

AFAIK, more energy is spent transporting the bananas from Hamburg (or wherever they land) to the various shops around Germany than on the trip from their country of origin to Europe.

[Odile]

Not quite sure you have grasped the trends for Switzerland, and in particular Migros:

'Migros predominantly sells local meat. Nearly all beef, veal and pork originate in Switzerland. However, due to the lack of domestic supply, imports are still necessary for some types of meat, such as horse, rabbit, turkey, lamb and chicken. In Switzerland, animal-friendly husbandry is ensured by strict legal provisions. However, a corresponding legal basis is often lacking abroad, which has a detrimental effect on animal welfare. In 2013 Migros therefore decided to apply the local animal protection standards to its entire range of animal products from abroad. It has demanded that its foreign suppliers comply with the Swiss provisions by the end of 2020 at the latest. Migros has successfully conducted corresponding pilot projects for rabbit and turkey meat. The entire value-added chain for turkey meat was adapted in collaboration with Swiss Animal Protection SAP. On the basis of these experiences, it is aiming to empower more foreign suppliers to apply the Swiss provisions over the coming years.'

And now, all the chicken and turkey and other fresh meats imported, mainly from Germany, Hungary and France- are all in compliance with the same, and checked/garanteed husbandry and feeds than in Switzerland. However, and as such you are right- those standards have not all been reached for frozen chicken- but Migros are working hard at achieving this asap.

China imports for Migros frozen chicken? Link plase.
And if you know that, buy fresh and local (or at least European local).

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	Odile
	Not quite sure you have grasped the trends for Switzerland, and in particular Migros: 'Migros predominantly sells local meat. Nearly all beef, veal and pork originate in Switzerland. However, due to the lack of domestic supply, imports are still necessary for some types of meat, such as horse, rabbit, turkey, lamb and chicken. In Switzerland, animal-friendly husbandry is ensured by strict legal provisions. However, a corresponding legal basis is often lacking abroad, which has a detrimental effect on animal welfare. In 2013 Migros therefore decided to apply the local animal protection standards to its entire range of animal products from abroad. It has demanded that its foreign suppliers comply with the Swiss provisions by the end of 2020 at the latest. Migros has successfully conducted corresponding pilot projects for rabbit and turkey meat. The entire value-added chain for turkey meat was adapted in collaboration with Swiss Animal Protection SAP. On the basis of these experiences, it is aiming to empower more foreign suppliers to apply the Swiss provisions over the coming years.' And now, all the chicken and turkey and other fresh meats imported, mainly from Germany, Hungary and France- are all in compliance with the same, and checked/garanteed husbandry and feeds than in Switzerland. However, and as such you are right- those standards have not all been reached for frozen chicken- but Migros are working hard at achieving this asap. China imports for Migros frozen chicken? Link plase. And if you know that, buy fresh and local (or at least European local).

My Swiss ex used to buy it all the time, it was from the budget range when she was making curry. So they have upped their game from 2013, It definitely said product go China on the packet pre 2013.

[Odile]

They were highgly criticised for it- and they acted. New Policy Decision made in 2013, and almost achieved in just over 3 years. Good on them I say- and the continued move to buy local or Europe, fight against pesticides, additives, antibiotics, etc.

But we digress- however couldn't let the chicken from China go un-answered. Pick up the Migros Magazine this week for 2 full pages of info on the current situation re meat sales.

[baboon]

Very nice to see that largely pro EU parties in the Netherlands are on their way to nicely spank the PVV.

I'm sure I remember the alt-right faction on here promising us Wilders lot would be the largest party and the Netherlands heading for the EU exit door

[Pachyderm]

	Quote:	baboon
	Very nice to see that largely pro EU parties in the Netherlands are on their way to nicely spank the PVV. I'm sure I remember the alt-right faction on here promising us Wilders lot would be the largest party and the Netherlands heading for the EU exit door

I can't speak for EF posters but I've not read/heard any media commentators predicting Wilders' PVV being the largest party post-election. And if it was, they would still need to be part of a coalition which isn't going to happen, according to the other parties' pre-election statements. Looks likely that the incumbent will be continuing.

[baboon]

	Quote:	Pachyderm
	I can't speak for EF posters but I've not read/heard any media commentators predicting Wilders' PVV being the largest party post-election.

"on here" - i.e. on EF. I think it was either Phos or Loz (I'm not checking through more than 8,000 posts to find out - and it might even have been on one of the other Brexit threads) that were confidentally predicting this a couple of months ago.

Edit - Loz at least, although on another thread:

	Quote:	Loz1983
	The Dutch video was funny. It'll be even funnier when Geert Wilders' Freedom Party wins the most seats in next months election.

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Doesn't matter. PVV will still win the most seats. Their leader praises Trump. I trust the irony of producing this video won't be lost on anyone.

	Quote:	baboon
	"on here" - i.e. on EF. I think it was either Phos or Loz (I'm not checking through more than 8,000 posts to find out - and it might even have been on one of the other Brexit threads) that were confidentally predicting this a couple of months ago. Edit - Loz at least, although on another thread:

Lol, yes I posted that, based on bookies odds and polling 4 weeks ago. I didn't account for the desperate last gasp anti-integration message Rutte would come out with, nor their spat with Turkey.
Amazing how many experts there are after an event has taken place, eh? I notice you also didn't post your reply, something along the lines of "with 20% of the vote PVV won't have won anything", I assume you're still sticking to that now VVD have polled about that?

When the Left are cheering Cloggie Tories after they've lost 10 seats, a far right party has seen a 33% increase in the vote and is the second largest party, the top three polling parties parties are various levels of right wing, when this happens, you know things have changed.

In fact, only the Left could hail this as a "victory". How have the left done in this election? Well all I can say is a far right party is now the second largest in "Liberal" Holland. Keep ignoring the issues and watch what happens next.

[baboon]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	When the Left are cheering Cloggie Tories after they've lost 10 seats, a far right party has seen a 33% increase in the vote and is the second largest party, the top three polling parties parties are various levels of right wing, when this happens, you know things have changed.

I see it as a victory for the social liberals that you so clearly despise

[baboon]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	I notice you also didn't post your reply, something along the lines of "with 20% of the vote PVV won't have won anything", I assume you're still sticking to that now VVD have polled about that?

I actually said they were unlikely to get more than 20% and so wouldn't be able to DO anything

They didn't get 20% and even if they had reached that mark they wouldn't have been able to DO anything because quite correctly no other party will touch them with a bargepole.

	Quote:	baboon
	I see it as a victory for the social liberals that you so clearly despise

[baboon]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	When the Left are cheering Cloggie Tories after they've lost 10 seats, a far right party has seen a 33% increase in the vote and is the second largest party, the top three polling parties parties are various levels of right wing, when this happens, you know things have changed.

They increased from 10% to 13%. Not exactly moving mountains.

[baboon]

	Quote:	Loz1983

Socially liberal parties won some 58% of the vote. Socially liberal D66 increased their vote by 50%.

Nice that most Dutch people aren't like Loz.

	Quote:	baboon
	Socially liberal parties won some 58% of the vote. Socially liberal D66 increased their vote by 50%. Nice that most Dutch people aren't like Loz.

"Socially liberal"

Dutch PM tells immigrants: ‘Act normal or go away’

[marton]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	I didn't account for the desperate last gasp anti-integration message Rutte would come out with, nor their spat with Turkey. .

Actually you did account for this but you got it wrong, badly wrong - see below

	Quote:	marton
	The Dutch Govt. blocked it so they also score points not only Wilder?

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Not when you see the videos of ensuing riots. This will backfire on the Dutch government. Heavily.