The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[PaddyG]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	How recent? He died two years ago!

It was at the Oxford Union in 2013.

How does this work?

Sorry, I should have rephrased that; "I recently saw..", but 2013 is not so long ago.

[amogles]

	Quote:
	In what way are Denmark, Sweden, Poland and the Czech Republic alike -- apart from all being in the EU?

they all have plenty of cute chicks?

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	PaddyG
	Sorry, I should have rephrased that; "I recently saw..", but 2013 is not so long ago.

Thanks for the clarification. I'm very familiar with his views and that particular speech. In 2013, even Corbyn was anti-EU, but proclaims he isn't now, not that I hold any great stall in that man's beliefs.

Tony Benn's belief was pretty much the same as Varoufakis' belief now, that Democracy is on a collision course with Capitalism with the EU and it's present structure. I totally agree, but you never fix something by walking away from it. You can't have a say if you don't have a voice within the EU. The "I'm alright Jack" isolationist attitude will not work in today's World. We are interconnected whether we like it or not.

[PaddyG]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Thanks for the clarification. I'm very familiar with his views and that particular speech. In 2013, even Corbyn was anti-EU, but proclaims he isn't now, not that I hold any great stall in that man's beliefs. Tony Benn's belief was pretty much the same as Varoufakis' belief now, that Democracy is on a collision course with Capitalism with the EU and it's present structure. I totally agree, but you never fix something by walking away from it. You can't have a say if you don't have a voice within the EU. The "I'm alright Jack" isolationist attitude will not work in today's World. We are interconnected whether we like it or not.

Yes, but being "interconnected" is not the same as being "dictated to". The EU hierarchy have made it abundantly clear they have no intention of reforming or "fixing" the EU.

It's becoming laughable that the EU democratic deficit is somehow a problem that will/ can easily be fixed later.. as if it has just occurred to the in-voters that this is a recent phenomenon. Ah, just a little issue, we will sort it.

Not happening.

Emily O'Reilly, European Ombudsman, has been tackling the EU elite and the issues related to non-transparency. However, she has had her remit powers challenged by the EU Council, who continue to object and call into question the Ombudsman's competence.

If the Ombudsman can't bring about change and has her office investigations ignored and powers limited; continues to struggle to make the EU hierarchy accountable, where does that leave us and democracy?

Quite incredible and very worrying, no?

[greenmount]

	Quote:	Swisstree
	It's becoming laughable that the EU democratic deficit is somehow a problem that will/ can easily be fixed later.. as if it has just occurred to the in-voters that this is a recent phenomenon. Ah, just a little issue, we will sort it. Not happening. Emily O'Reilly, European Ombudsman, has been tackling the EU elite and the issues related to non-transparency. However, she has had her remit powers challenged by the EU Council, who continue to object and call into question the Ombudsman's competence. If the Ombudsman can't bring about change and has her office investigations ignored and powers limited; continues to struggle to make the EU hierarchy accountable, where does that leave us and democracy? Quite incredible and very worrying, no?

But really, is that on the Ombudsman's list of competencies? She has to convince a large enough group of EU MPs to bring about change...it functions almost like at the micro level. Lot of lobbying and negotiations, and tell me where it's not like that.

[curley]

	Quote:	lewton
	You think I think this would be bad because.....?

right, I missinterpreted that. , sorry

[lewton]

	Quote:	curley
	right, I missinterpreted that.

Cool.

Interesting article from The Economist 2014 highlighting the struggle to avoid divorce between Britain and the European Union. Cameron really struggled with the appointment of Juncker and even then it was plain to see the difficulties UK had negotiating with the EU.

By the by, looks like the EU Commission is going to start messing with your Netflix and Amazon streaming content, folks

The European Commission will propose a quota requiring online video streaming services to offer at least 20% European content.

James Waterworth, vice president of trade association CCIA’s said “The idea of cultural quotas is outdated, doesn’t serve the consumer interest in the twenty-first century and won’t help internet innovators or content innovators,”

[Sbrinz]

Interesting front cover of Private Eye this week,

[snapsterone]

	Quote:	PaddyG
	I saw a recent video of Tony Benn advocating leaving the EU as it is simply undemocratic. I'd hardly call him a far-right loon. That's pretty much my stance on the matter; I really don't give a donkey's about immigration and I believe business will recover after a hiccup, but the EU is one of the most corrupt, authoritarian institutions in the world and needs to be shown the door.

Never trust anyone called Tony. There used to be a lot of them about and one or so is still lingering on.

Just came across this lively discussion - I have alteriour motives though.

I'm a journalist at Radio Basilisk in Basel and I'm working on a story about Brits in Basel. How are you feeling about it, are you worried that after a yes to the Brexit you won't be allowed to work here anymore, etc.

Would anyone living in Basel-Stadt/Baselland like to talk to me about that? Also, if you spoke German, that would be amazing, as the radio station is in German. Email me at monika.glauser@basilisk.ch. Thanks in advance!

[Blueangel]

Good luck with that.

The Leave campaign are in a minority, as this poll shows, but a very vocal one.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Good luck with that. The Leave campaign are in a minority, as this poll shows, but a very vocal one.

However the poll is old & many people would change their vote such as myself.
Fairly irrelevant as the options are not stay or leave. The winner is stay loosely connected which could easily be a leave vote.

[Medea Fleecestealer]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	However the poll is old & many people would change their vote such as myself. Fairly irrelevant as the options are not stay or leave. The winner is stay loosely connected which could easily be a leave vote.

Also while some of us voted in this poll, we're not allowed to in the real one.

[Cornetto]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Even if I had a single doubt in my mind about staying in the EU, the factor that would most prevent me from voting that way is the absolute shower of ****heads both in the UK and abroad who are behind the campaign. I've been familiar with these people and their political lives for many years, and to be frank, wouldn't **** on them if they were burning! They Leave campaign couldn't have lined up a group of people more reprehensible to me on every other polical matter, so I'd never side with them on this one in a million years. Le Pen and Wilders want to come to the UK to campaign for Brexit. Golden Dawn members were intimidating EU MP's a few weeks ago in Brussels. FOP are on the rise again in Austria. I remember when Haider was all over the news in the mid 90's (I was in Salzburg at the time). I remember the EU sanctions against Austria that the EU imposed when he became successful. And now the far right want the UK to lead the way in breaking up the EU?!!! Nah! Not happening!

I would caution that just because the far right are fond of an idea, that doesn't necessarily mean we should dismiss it out of hand. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

On a different topic, I find it interesting but not surprising that David Cameron's supposed reforms seems to have been completely forgotten. He was asked before it all started whether he'd campaign for Brexit if he didn't get the reforms he wanted, and he said he'd "rule nothing out", but in practice I had a feeling that he'd come back with something and then just present that as his 'reformed EU' whether or not there was actually any substance to it.

I think we need to get away from the bureaucratic centralised behemoth that the EU has become over the past two decades and the direction in which it is heading. We got an exemption from 'ever closer union', but how long before Germany and France get fed up with us trying to have our cake and eat it? We should be thinking long-term about whether we want to continue on this path or say as a nation that there are no hard feelings but this level of political union is not for us. This is a long-term issue which is routinely ignored in favour of short-term economic uncertainty and medium-term immigration.

I did a quiz recently that placed me as a Reluctant Remainer, probably because I acknowledged that there would be short- to medium-term repercussions of a Brexit. This vote is billed as changing the future of the nation, but the debate seems to focus mainly on issues that will either be resolved or forgotten in no more than a decade.

[Phil_MCR]

	Quote:	Cornetto
	Germany and France get fed up with us trying to have our cake and eat it?

It's not having our cake and eating it. It's getting the cake we paid for. Having a cake and eating it would be the rest of the EU after having agreed to give the UK a rebate then afterwards insist on cancelling it.

Every person in Britain should give Tony Blair a punch in the face for betraying the UK and giving up part of the rebate for nothing. It will cost us some £10 billion.

Stupid Labour complain about austerity, but if they didn't fúck up the economy and give away money for no reason, there wouldn't be a need for any austerity!

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	Cornetto
	We should be thinking long-term about whether we want to continue on this path or say as a nation that there are no hard feelings but this level of political union is not for us. This is a long-term issue which is routinely ignored in favour of short-term economic uncertainty and medium-term immigration.

This is very true, there is a big gap between where the UK wants to go and where the rest intends to go although what shape the takes is yet to be seen.

[amogles]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	This is very true, there is a big gap between where the UK wants to go and where the rest intends to go although what shape the takes is yet to be seen.

I don't think its a UK versus the rest thing. There are quite a lot of people in the other countries who agree with the UK point of view and their number appears to be growing.

[Pachyderm]

I really object to being portrayed as "anti-Europe". It's sort of self-evident that anyone living outside the UK in, erm, Europe, probably rather likes it.

Please. Let's make a distinction between Europe and the EU. I love being European, and am proud of the civilising influence of its art & culture, history, food, wine, scientific achievements, sports prowess... you name it. But while I love Europe, I dislike the EU and its shrivelling of democracy.