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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #8181  
Old 20.03.2017, 14:48
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Are there any truly "nice" nations in the world?
Of course - Switzerland.
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  #8182  
Old 20.03.2017, 15:19
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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You claim nobody wants a hard BREXIT, really not sure thats true.
I think many people myself included would rather have a zero Tarif trade situation. For years Japanese TV type cameras had a 60% EU tariff, this personally cost me several hundreds of thousands of pounds. All to protect Philips now Thompson from Sony.
Did it really hurt you, hurt your bottom line? Every competitor was also subject to the tariffs so there's a fair chane it "merely" raised the general price level.
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  #8183  
Old 20.03.2017, 15:59
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Every competitor was also subject to the tariffs so there's a fair chane it "merely" raised the general price level.
Not every competitor. Domestic ones are not subject to tariffs. Kind of the point to them.
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For years Japanese TV type cameras had a 60% EU tariff, this personally cost me several hundreds of thousands of pounds.
Hundreds of thousands of pounds? Photographer for 'Men Only', were you?

Off topic (not that I'd get a response) but here's something I find strange - No problem where it comes to unfettered free trade, but the moment cheap labour is on the horizon, then it's a case of curbing immigration to protect British jobs...
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  #8184  
Old 20.03.2017, 16:15
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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If you think Belgium, Germany, France and Greece are "nice" nations, you need to buy yourself a good history book.
You started the whole thing about the EU not going to be nice, so Britain had better get out.
As if a little England with a perpetual Tory government would be nice.
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  #8185  
Old 20.03.2017, 17:05
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Not every competitor. Domestic ones are not subject to tariffs. Kind of the point to them.

Hundreds of thousands of pounds? Photographer for 'Men Only', were you?

Off topic (not that I'd get a response) but here's something I find strange - No problem where it comes to unfettered free trade, but the moment cheap labour is on the horizon, then it's a case of curbing immigration to protect British jobs...
I am talking about the tariffs paid on equipment I used in the earlier part of my career. Typical Broadcast quality PAL SD Camcorder used to cost £70,000 with a useful life time of 2 years (tube cameras) & 3-4 years for CDD cameras, do the maths over 25 years.
I mainly worked on commercials since 2000, day rates far higher than anything else & you generally don't have to own much kit as the client will rent whats needed.
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Did it really hurt you, hurt your bottom line? Every competitor was also subject to the tariffs so there's a fair chane it "merely" raised the general price level.
.
Decimated it when BBC started 'producer choice' in the 1980's, historically they employed both full time staff plus freelancers & gave them equipment needed, then they gave then zero hour contracts to all but kit needed to be provided by the cameraman. Hiring as needed was a no go as the hire companies charged as much for the kit for 1 day hire as the BBC would pay for a cameraman with kit.

You have to remember around 1982 average UK house price was about £18,000, having to spend £70,000 to be able to work in your 20's was a killer. Today far better kit can be bought for £10,000, so the costs are peanuts in comparison.

Last edited by fatmanfilms; 20.03.2017 at 17:15.
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  #8186  
Old 20.03.2017, 20:24
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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This is the point I'm making, there are other means to protect EU's interests, therefore an army isn't necessary.
Right so lets see the US or the UK give up it army first. The EU is absolutely entitled to defend it's interests just like the US or the UK whether you like it or not. Any argument you make for one retaining or not having an army is valid for all three.

The idea of the EU depending on two countries that would prefer it did not exist makes it all the more important that it has a military capability (approved), a border guard (approved), coast guard (approved) and intelligence agency (under discussion) and so on. And the more we see of Trump the more likely the intelligence capability will be approved too.
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  #8187  
Old 20.03.2017, 22:47
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Decimated it when BBC started 'producer choice' in the 1980's, historically they employed both full time staff plus freelancers & gave them equipment needed, then they gave then zero hour contracts to all but kit needed to be provided by the cameraman. Hiring as needed was a no go as the hire companies charged as much for the kit for 1 day hire as the BBC would pay for a cameraman with kit.

You have to remember around 1982 average UK house price was about £18,000, having to spend £70,000 to be able to work in your 20's was a killer. Today far better kit can be bought for £10,000, so the costs are peanuts in comparison.
That's not what I'm aiming at.

A film team needs expensive equipment, some of it of foreign origin and heavily tariff'ed. This applied to you, the BBC's teams as well as to every other competitor. So while the tariffs helped hold price levels high they had no effect on your competitiveness because every competitor was affected in a similar way and by a similar amount (for simplicity's sake let's ignore other potentially differentiating factors).

Had the tariffs been dropped your prices would have dropped (or profit margin increased) but so would have everybody else's in a very similar manner and amount.

So absent competition from abroad the tariffs had no effect on your market position.
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  #8188  
Old 21.03.2017, 07:50
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Right so lets see the US or the UK give up it army first. The EU is absolutely entitled to defend it's interests just like the US or the UK whether you like it or not. Any argument you make for one retaining or not having an army is valid for all three.

The idea of the EU depending on two countries that would prefer it did not exist makes it all the more important that it has a military capability (approved), a border guard (approved), coast guard (approved) and intelligence agency (under discussion) and so on. And the more we see of Trump the more likely the intelligence capability will be approved too.
Anyone would think the EU was a nation state...
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  #8189  
Old 21.03.2017, 08:39
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Anyone would think the EU was a nation state...
Anyone would think the UK was a nation state too... and the question is what's the difference, if so? Not a lot other than some time has passed since the Britain was invented as a result of a series of accidents of reproduction, or lack thereof; that Elizabeth I had no issue and so her heir turned out to already be a monarch, resulting in a 'personal union' between two separate and ethnically heterogeneous nations. A monarchic federation of various ethnic entities, that is presently less likely to stay together than almost any other in Western Europe - or other than Spain, what other Western European nation is more likely to see secession?

In fairness, the UK is nothing special in the European context, where it comes to its origins. Spain is another personal union, this time via marriage rather than inheritance, Austria only exists because the Habsburgs didn't want to sacrifice their non-German subjects for the 'ideal' of a greater German homeland. Lichtenstein, from what I can make out, is an independent nation due to the medieval equivalent of a typo, from what I can make out. Indeed, most nations originate not on ethnic grounds, but because some guy with an army said the land was his.

I point this out because to ask a question on whether the EU is nation or not inferring that it is a nonsense to even suggest it, simply betrays a complete lack of understanding of what a nation actually is.

The EU is a super-national entity that is in the process of becoming a nation. It may succeed and be as casually considered as such in exactly the same way as the UK presently is in time. Or it could fail. But to dismiss this really only betrays how uncomfortable such a possibility is for some.
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  #8190  
Old 21.03.2017, 10:31
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Anyone would think the EU was a nation state...
Still the same argument... and the more often you repeat it does not make it any the more convincing!

And given some of your previous positions I'm surprised you don't remember that a more integrated EU is exactly their objective.
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  #8191  
Old 21.03.2017, 11:51
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Anyone would think the EU was a nation state...
I assume an EU army would have a similar concept to NATO; I mean each nation has its own military but they join up under a single command structure to counter a common threat.
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  #8192  
Old 21.03.2017, 12:02
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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That's not what I'm aiming at.

A film team needs expensive equipment, some of it of foreign origin and heavily tariff'ed. This applied to you, the BBC's teams as well as to every other competitor. So while the tariffs helped hold price levels high they had no effect on your competitiveness because every competitor was affected in a similar way and by a similar amount (for simplicity's sake let's ignore other potentially differentiating factors).

Had the tariffs been dropped your prices would have dropped (or profit margin increased) but so would have everybody else's in a very similar manner and amount.

So absent competition from abroad the tariffs had no effect on your market position.
The technology changed when outside filming started to be done on video, film cameras lasted 30 years plus & specialist cameras very much longer. Whilst the BBC subsided with a license fee could afford £70k every 2 years. It was not a
viable business, that was the problem. A new work tool had a high tariff, changing the landscape to protect EU manufactures from Japanese who made a better product for a lower price. How many Thompson TV's have you got at home?
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  #8193  
Old 21.03.2017, 12:47
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I'm surprised you don't remember that a more integrated EU is exactly their objective.
It's funny, though. Whenever I bring that up with my Remain-voting friends, they always insist that I'm being paranoid.


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  #8194  
Old 21.03.2017, 13:13
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The EU is a super-national entity that is in the process of becoming a nation. It may succeed and be as casually considered as such in exactly the same way as the UK presently is in time. Or it could fail. But to dismiss this really only betrays how uncomfortable such a possibility is for some.
I am very uncomfortable at this prospect.

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And given some of your previous positions I'm surprised you don't remember that a more integrated EU is exactly their objective.
The problem is that this isn't the objective of most of the people who make up the member countries of the EU. The very people who the EU are supposed to serve.
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  #8195  
Old 21.03.2017, 13:43
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I am very uncomfortable at this prospect.



The problem is that this isn't the objective of most of the people who make up the member countries of the EU. The very people who the EU are supposed to serve.
"this isn't the objective of most of the people who make up the member countries of the EU" You know this how?

There is a poll here!
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  #8196  
Old 21.03.2017, 13:43
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I am very uncomfortable at this prospect.
And you have every right to object to that prospect if that is your opinion. But if that is the case, why (and I'm not simply pointing the finger at you) argue points that realistically have nothing to do with this and appear to be invented only because you are unwilling to address your actual objections?

It's only then that you can really argue the topic. Of course, as a result it may also result in discovering why you might object and that may ultimately reveal motivations that you may not be happy to discover about yourself. Or that while your objections may have merit, the alternative is ultimately less attractive.

Of the latter, you should ask yourself this; the World is consolidating. Gone, or soon to go, are the days of the nation state as the players increasingly are becoming blocs and other 'superstates'. Splendid isolation is no longer a long term option and nation states are simply becoming small fry in a shrinking pool of larger fish. How long do you think European or, any, nation states will be able to continue and pull above their weight in this new order? And what happens when that is no longer possible and they can no longer become parter of larger blocs on their terms because they missed that boat?

Because when you can see the caravels on the horizon, it'll already be too late.
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  #8197  
Old 21.03.2017, 13:50
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Of course - Switzerland.
ah.

I thought you were going to say Romania

(who to be fair have been reasonably well behaved at least as far as I my knowledge of history goes)
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  #8198  
Old 21.03.2017, 16:08
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Goldman Sachs will begin moving hundreds of people out of London before any Brexit deal is struck as part of its contingency plans for Britain leaving the European Union, the Wall Street firm's Europe CEO said.

"We are going to start to execute on those contingency plans," Richard Gnodde, chief executive officer of Goldman Sachs International, the European arm of the Wall Street bank, told CNBC on Tuesday.
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Good news it is hundreds, not thousands
They employ ca. six thousand in UK.
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  #8199  
Old 21.03.2017, 16:21
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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It's funny, though. Whenever I bring that up with my Remain-voting friends, they always insist that I'm being paranoid.


This is the goal of the EU, yes, but the UK had secured several exceptions.
You guys had the best deal possible, which is why I supported Brexit from the beginning.
I can't wait to see you go.
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  #8200  
Old 21.03.2017, 16:42
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Rising food and fuel prices hoist UK inflation rate to 2.3%
Standard of living fears build as wage growth slows and inflation leaps from 1.8% in January to highest level since September 2013
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Investors highlighted the significant pick-up in so-called core inflation, which excludes volatile prices such as food and fuel. That measure jumped to 2% in February from 1.6% in January and was well above forecasts of 1.8%.
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