The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[Aeneas]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Where have I said this

More specifically you claimed that further integration was not the objective of most people in the EU here - framing it in terms of pro and anti was something you introduced later when attempting to argue that the 2005 referenda were some sort of proof that across Europe people opposed further integration - and only citing those referenda that supported your argument, ignoring the rest.

	Quote:	Aeneas
	More specifically you claimed that further integration was not the objective of most people in the EU here - framing it in terms of pro and anti was something you introduced later when attempting to argue that the 2005 referenda were some sort of proof that across Europe people opposed further integration - and only citing those referenda that supported your argument, ignoring the rest.

	Quote:	Aeneas
	Just because people vote for pro European parties that doesn't translate to pro-European, but neither does it translate to anti-European and that was your claim.

So I didn't claim this then. Thanks for clarifying.

[Aeneas]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	So I didn't claim this then. Thanks for clarifying.

Then why did you then argue that "just because people vote for pro European parties that doesn't translate to pro-European" if that was unrelated to what you were claiming? So unless you were actively seeking to change the goalposts and obfuscate, you were. Clear enough?

[marton]

	Quote:
	Arron Banks, who used to be one of the UK Independence Party’s biggest donors, is demanding that Ukip pays him £200,000 for call centre and other services he provided for free. Mr Banks, who donated £1million to Ukip before the last general election, has submitted the invoice after he fell out with senior figures in the party and his membership lapsed. Mr Banks said he had decided to invoice the party for the cost of providing call centre and membership services after the party had effectively suspended him.

Source

You could not make this stuff up

Of course UKIP have other financial concerns

	Quote:
	Ukip is likely to be asked to repay tens of thousands of euros by European parliament finance chiefs who have accused the party of misspending EU funds on party workers and Nigel Farage’s failed bid to win a seat in Westminster.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	marton
	Source You could not make this stuff up Of course UKIP have other financial concerns

Greater risk for Europe from BREXIT
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bu...-a7521861.html
EU starts backtracking
https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/eu...094906225.html

[Aeneas]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	EU starts backtracking https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/eu...094906225.html

Clearly you didn't read the article:

"if Britain still wants to have good access to the single market, it has to take on the corresponding commitments and if it doesn't want that, then there will be a separation – that's a shame for Britain"

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	Aeneas
	Clearly you didn't read the article: "if Britain still wants to have good access to the single market, it has to take on the corresponding commitments and if it doesn't want that, then there will be a separation – that's a shame for Britain"

Does Britain actually care, the access is far from free. The Germans sell a lot of cars to the UK, it will cost them more if Britain does not have 'expensive' tariff free access.

[amogles]

	Quote:	Aeneas
	Clearly you didn't read the article: "if Britain still wants to have good access to the single market, it has to take on the corresponding commitments and if it doesn't want that, then there will be a separation – that's a shame for Britain"

Schäuble is one of the more pragmatic and less ideologically blinded of the present German politicians, and hence one who can be made to see sense where there is sense to be seen. But he's also one who lacks the bigger vision, has virtually zero charisma, and tends to get bogged down in the details too quickly.

Germany is still busy telling itself that the rest of the EU is a unified bloc, united by common goals and visions, which all happen to be identical to Germany's goals and visions, and that this gives them extra leverage at the negotiating table. The question is how long they can keep up the appearance.

[marton]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Does Britain actually care, the access is far from free. The Germans sell a lot of cars to the UK, it will cost them more if Britain does not have 'expensive' tariff free access.

The Germans just have to convince the other 26 countries

[Aeneas]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Does Britain actually care, the access is far from free.

Well you cared enough to post a link to an article then misrepresent what it was saying.

	Quote:
	The Germans sell a lot of cars to the UK, it will cost them more if Britain does not have 'expensive' tariff free access.

It'll cost Germany a lot more than UK tariffs if they undermine their own trade bloc. But that's been explained to you a good few times, so let's just take that as rebutted until you actually address it. Not that you will.

[lewton]

Schäuble will be irrelevant soon.
Most probably the next German government will be Red-Green-Red but even if it is one more big parties coalition, the SDP won't accept him as the Finance Minister.

Most Germans I know are not happy at all with the austerity he has imposed on them. For instance a public primary school teacher (sister of a friend of mine) was telling me how they've had to cut on fun activities because the school has no money for them.

The German economy might be strong but the austerity is undermining the growth prospects. It is something like Osborne did to the UK (a growing economy but only for the few), but Merkel is not as stupid as Cameron and has not let Schäuble do it as much as Osborne did the Brits.

[amogles]

	Quote:	lewton
	Schäuble will be irrelevant soon. Most probably the next German government will be Red-Green-Red but even if it is one more big parties coalition, the SDP won't accept him as the Finance Minister. Most Germans I know are not happy at all with the austerity he has imposed on them. For instance a public primary school teacher (sister of a friend of mine) was telling me how they've had to cut on fun activities because the school has no money for them. The German economy might be strong but the austerity is undermining the growth prospects. It is something like Osborne did to the UK (a growing economy but only for the few), but Merkel is not as stupid as Cameron and has not let Schäuble do it as much as Osborne did the Brits.

If we see a red-green-red coalition, that will basically mean all fiscal caution goes out of the window with a massive borrow to spend drive as well as even more punitive taxes. In the short term that will generate growth, but in the longer term it will create a mess that the next government or the one after that will have to clean up.

If the red-black coalition stays, under leadership of Schultz, the present economic regime may continue, with or without Schäuble. What Schäuble is doing today is more or less the policy initiated by Schröder, so even if the SPD likes to rail against it, they musn't forget they invented it.

Funding of schools is not a federal responsibility by the way, but resides with the Länder. So if Schäuble is to blame at all, it's in a very indirect way.

[Aeneas]

	Quote:	lewton
	Schäuble will be irrelevant soon.

And off we go again. More predictions on how the EU will turn on itself, the commission members will crack open each other's heads and begin to feast on the goo inside.

As much as it may be giving you all cause to touch yourselves in ways you find strangely pleasurable, sharing predictions here based on little more than wishful thinking are little more than the digital equivalent of a circle jerk.

In short, please stop doing that sort of thing in public.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	marton
	The Germans just have to convince the other 26 countries

That is of course true, which is why the EU will be bankrupt & an irrelevance within a few years.

[Aeneas]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	That is of course true, which is why the EU will be bankrupt & an irrelevance within a few years.

Keep that up and you'll go blind.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	That is of course true, which is why the EU will be bankrupt & an irrelevance within a few years.

As opposed to the U.K. who has failed to produce a positive balance of trade in well over two decades, sends 48% of its exports to the EU and is ranked third last, just above Greece and Malta when it comes to closing business deals.

And of course the U.K. will spend the next few years as you put it, negotiating an exit deal with the EU followed by an application to the WTO, leading to perhaps their signing of a first trade deal around 2022 if the are lucky...

[lewton]

	Quote:	Aeneas
	And off we go again. More predictions on how the EU will turn on itself, the commission members will crack open each other's heads and begin to feast on the goo inside. As much as it may be giving you all cause to touch yourselves in ways you find strangely pleasurable, sharing predictions here based on little more than wishful thinking are little more than the digital equivalent of a circle jerk. In short, please stop doing that sort of thing in public.

You are obviously having a bad day.
Half this thread is predictions; if you don't like to read predictions you don't need to read it.

[Aeneas]

	Quote:	lewton
	]Half this thread is predictions; if you don't like to read predictions you don't need to read it.

I think you're confusing predictions with masturbatory wishful thinking - your half of the thread.

It appears to be the same modus operandi, over an over - a 'prediction', followed by a rebuttal, which is then ignored, followed by another bit of predictive propaganda.

Of course, you could do us a favour and stop clogging what is supposed to be a discussion with what is essentially just noise. In the meantime, you'll forgive us is we just continue calling you out on your BS.

[lewton]

	Quote:	Aeneas
	I think you're confusing predictions with masturbatory wishful thinking - your half of the thread. It appears to be the same modus operandi, over an over - a 'prediction', followed by a rebuttal, which is then ignored, followed by another bit of predictive propaganda. Of course, you could do us a favour and stop clogging what is supposed to be a discussion with what is essentially just noise. In the meantime, you'll forgive us is we just continue calling you out on your BS.

A very bad day indeed.

[Aeneas]

	Quote:	lewton
	A very bad day indeed.

More BS. Try responding to some of the rebuttals, like Jim2007's recent one, to your posts, if you have the courage. Doubt it.