The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

	Quote:	TobiasM
	Good business model if you want to live in a world totally dictated by economics and greed, oh we do, yes I know. Somethings on the list are OK, like; non smokers, no pets, great ! but plumbers and battered wives or single mums and dads? seriously you agree with things like that? The man sounds like a complete twonk.

Jesus! Plumbers? Don't they charge about 400 quid an hour plus call out fees? I can't imagine they are too impoverished to pay rent for some two-bit bedsit.

	Quote:	dawiz
	"Dictatorship is a form of government where a country or a group of countries is ruled by one person or political entity, and exercised through various mechanisms to ensure that the entity's power remains strong." (Wikipedia) In how far ist that different from what's going on in Britain right now?

And what came after that on wiki? Here, let me help:

"A dictatorship is a type of authoritarianism, in which politicians regulate nearly every aspect of the public and private behavior of citizens. Dictatorship and totalitarianism societies generally employ political propaganda to decrease the influence of proponents of alternative governing systems.


And this is what the article references.

Now if you can find similarities here to what is going on in Britain right now then there is little point in further discussion with you.

	Quote:	dawiz
	Please do let us know what you're doing to help, so the tarts can watch and learn.

Simpelz. Accept the democratic decision and don't undermine every single smallest aspect of the leaving process.

Now here is a Brummie with great common sense:

https://www.facebook.com/BBCQuestion...2267700453616/

And to make sure negotiations - which will be in French btw on the insistence of the EU- make a good start- Murdoch and The Sun covered with White Cliffs of Dover which infammatory slogans facing France and Europe, bravo.

[dawiz]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	"A dictatorship is a type of authoritarianism, in which politicians regulate nearly every aspect of the public and private behavior of citizens. Dictatorship and totalitarianism societies generally employ political propaganda to decrease the influence of proponents of alternative governing systems.

Uhmm, yes, that's exactly what's happening - propaganda, attempts to decrease the influence of proponents of alternative governing systems etc. - as in all nations that are on the brink of turning authoritarian, those people who are on the government's side wouldn't agree with that assessment, naturally. Those would typically call the proponents "tarts" and then fail to produce any kind of evidence of their own attempts to improve the situation.

Also, I wasn't even talking about Brexit - I was talking about the fact that May is categorically denying Scotland another vote. And I called her "little dictator" (google that term please) - but that detail must have eluded you as well.

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Simpelz. Accept the democratic decision and not undermining every single smallest aspect of the leaving process.

And this is the crux of the matter, isn't it?

Almost half the country voted AGAINST this referendum. That's millions and millions of people that didn't want to leave.

Yes, democracy dictates that the UK leaves the EU but a good government would ensure that the millions who voted against it are able to air their concerns without being flicked away with the rather impotent retort that "you lost, put up with it".

Conversely, I think it would have been absolutely wrong, had the result been different, for the government to say the same to those millions that wanted to leave.

Brexit will not suit many many people in the UK and it would be idiotic of the government to treat them as an irritating distraction.

The campaign was built and won on lies bordering on lunacy from both sides and I can see from my own visits back to the UK there is a lot of buyer's remorse now that the lies, smoke and mirrors have been exposed.

[marton]

	Quote:	dawiz
	May is turning into an outright little dictator - what's the deal with not letting the Scots vote again? Accepting the Brexit referendum vote was the country's democratic duty (although it clearly wasn't, considering that the referendum wasn't legally binding), but when it comes to the Scots, democracy doesn't seem to apply. I guess May is just another LePen, Trump, Haider etc - a right-wing demagogue with dictatorial aspirations. Yay.

Actually I believe she is completely overloaded so is trying to close down anything outside of the direct Brexit negotiation.
When the negotiations get into full swing and get too big for her to micromanage then it will get difficult!

[Urs Max]

	Quote:	dawiz
	May is turning into an outright little dictator - what's the deal with not letting the Scots vote again? Accepting the Brexit referendum vote was the country's democratic duty (although it clearly wasn't, considering that the referendum wasn't legally binding), but when it comes to the Scots, democracy doesn't seem to apply. I guess May is just another LePen, Trump, Haider etc - a right-wing demagogue with dictatorial aspirations. Yay.

The UK is not a democracy.

Letting the Sots vote a 2nd time or not has nothing to do with being a democracy either.

	Quote:
	And to make sure negotiations - which will be in French btw on the insistence of the EU-

I don't think that's true. Reuters reported that the EU's chief negotiator on Brexit, Michel Barnier, had insisted on negotiating in French, but Barnier himself never confirmed that. In fact, he tweeted that works in English as often as in French. And Angela Merkel is on record as saying that each party is free to speak their own language.

English is likely to remain the dominant language of the EU's bureaucracy, even after Brexit.

[chomp]

	Quote:	Urs Max
	The UK is not a democracy. Letting the Sots vote a 2nd time or not has nothing to do with being a democracy either.

Exactly. The UK is a crowned republic with certain democratic elements.

[Urs Max]

	Quote:	chomp
	Exactly. The UK is a crowned republic with certain democratic elements.

A monarchy can never be a republic. Never.

In a republic those who govern hold power for a limited time only and are elected by some mechanism or other. The UK Royal's birthright is the complete opposite to that.

[amogles]

	Quote:	Urs Max
	A monarchy can never be a republic. Never. In a republic those who govern hold power for a limited time only and are elected by some mechanism or other. The UK Royal's birthright is the complete opposite to that.

Rome continued to be a republic even after they brought back the emperors.

A republic is a form of government, it has nothing to do with how the leaders get elected.

On the other hand in history there have also been monarchies where the king was elected. There were also monrachies where the throne was kept permanently vacant.

There are all sorts of possible systems.

	Quote:	amogles
	Rome continued to be a republic even after they brought back the emperors. A republic is a form of government, it has nothing to do with how the leaders get elected. On the other hand in history there have also been monarchies where the king was elected. There were also monrachies where the throne was kept permanently vacant. There are all sorts of possible systems.

By definition no, at least inheritance is explicitly excluded

	Quote:
	A republic is a form of government in which the country is considered a "public matter" – not the private concern or property of the rulers – and where offices of state are elected or appointed, rather than inherited. It is a government where the head of state is not a monarch and government leaders exercise power according to the rule of law.

According to a further link in the above, the Roman Republic ended in 27BC with the foundation of the Roman Empire.

[Belgianmum]

	Quote:
	Sad you can't see it (but yes, I should have provided a link- I was however asking a question- is that legal. Found out since, not is isn't).

I think this discussion merited a thread of it's own. It isn't really related to Brexit is it?

	Quote:
	No shoehorn - I wonder how many of you have visited the UK recently- and felt the changes happening- the increase in racial attacks, verbal abuse in the street and tube, in every day life situation - this was just another illustration- of someone who deliberately breaks the law in discriminating and knows he can get away with it in the present climate. .

I can't say I noticed any real difference when I was there in December.
There were much worse racial tensions in the seventies and eighties in my opinion. The race riots and pakis go home graffiti etc. It pretty bad at that time and I don't think it's anywhere near as bad as that at the moment.

	Quote:
	No shoehorn - I wonder how many of you have visited the UK recently- and felt the changes happening- the increase in racial attacks, verbal abuse in the street and tube, in every day life situation

Witnessed and experienced by you, or read about?

Can't beat a bit of Brexit humour...

	Quote:	News Thump
	A vacuum that can suck the bricks out of a wall will soon be sitting under the stairs of all proud Brexiters, according to James Dyson.

[Chuff]

	Quote:
	No shoehorn - I wonder how many of you have visited the UK recently- and felt the changes happening- the increase in racial attacks, verbal abuse in the street and tube, in every day life situation - this was just another illustration- of someone who deliberately breaks the law in discriminating and knows he can get away with it in the present climate. Sad you can't see it (but yes, I should have provided a link- I was however asking a question- is that legal. Found out since, not is isn't).

Oldie, I trust your sense of what is going on in the UK about as much as I would David Cameron claiming to understand what it is like to be poor and in need. The UK had all of the issues you list LONG before Brexit was a glimmer in Farage's beady little eye. I think you have almost zero understanding of modern UK culture other than the fantasy you build up on your own head mixed with your own rose-tinted spectacles from times of yore.

	Quote:	dawiz
	May is turning into an outright little dictator - what's the deal with not letting the Scots vote again? Accepting the Brexit referendum vote was the country's democratic duty (although it clearly wasn't, considering that the referendum wasn't legally binding), but when it comes to the Scots, democracy doesn't seem to apply. I guess May is just another LePen, Trump, Haider etc - a right-wing demagogue with dictatorial aspirations. Yay.

You really do post some absolute ****.

The only person to blame for Brexit is the abject moron David Cameron, who thought it would be a fun idea to call a referendum that he couldn't possibly lose... until he did.

May is having to deal with the aftermath of that, and she is doing it more admirably than any other political leader could hope to have done. Would you prefer the feeble commie clown Jeremy Corbyn? The ineffectual whiney windbag Nick Clegg? May is the only leader of any worth on the UK political map as it currently stands.

As for Scoxit, Nicola Sturgeon has been cringingly desperate in her behaviour, and it is no wonder that May wants to block a vote at this sensitive stage in everything that is going on.

Comparing May to a dictator is just so ridiculous on just about every level I can think of, and just shows that you are so taken up with your own sense of outrage that you lack the ability to think objectively.

[TobiasM]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	"A dictatorship is a type of authoritarianism, in which politicians regulate nearly every aspect of the public and private behavior of citizens. Dictatorship and totalitarianism societies generally employ political propaganda to decrease the influence of proponents of alternative governing systems.

	Quote:	Loz1983
	And this is what the article references. Now if you can find similarities here to what is going on in Britain right now then there is little point in further discussion with you.

Um the big red lying bus and the Daily Fail. And lets not forget how some dictators have managed to get into power through populism in the first place.

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Simpelz. Accept the democratic decision and don't undermine every single smallest aspect of the leaving process.

No thats the lovely thing about democracy, we dont have to accept that decision and its a decision made on falsehoods and the public as naieve as they are, were properly hoodwinked. We shouldn't listen to people who use "simplez" or rely on memes to get their points across either.

[marton]

No surprises in the Letter.

Runs to six pages
Not as simple as people claimed?

Basically blah, blah plus May confirms no wish to stay in the single market. She wants to negotiate free Trade agreement in parallel, wonder how the 27 will react to that?

She also gave notice of withdrawal from European Atomic Energy Community but nothing about EEA?

[etefan02]

	Quote:	TobiasM
	No thats the lovely thing about democracy, we dont have to accept that decision and its a decision made on falsehoods and the public as naieve as they are, were properly hoodwinked. We shouldn't listen to people who use "simplez" or rely on memes to get their points across either.

Lmao, not accepting a democratic result is anti democratic.........
And it was not a decision, it was the result of a referendum!


Keep believing that air conditioners are Sexist and that brexit somehow symbolizes that the brits are in someway racist!


Blacks, Asians, and muslims are the ones that might benefit the most from Brexit!

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	marton
	She also gave notice of withdrawal from European Atomic Energy Community but nothing about EEA?

Because the UK is not a member of the EEA in it's right, despite all the blah blah in the papers etc. Article 50 covers that, just as it covers the UKs rights and obligations under the bilateral agreements.