The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[McTAVGE]

Go and wash your mouth soap! NEW ZEALAND lamb??? Why get your lamb meat from the other side of the world when you could get gorgeous Welsh lamb or lamb from the salt marshes of Brittany? Or from the Scottish Highlands?


This is the kind of trade that should have been better encouraged within the EU. The NZ lamb made its way in via the U.K., so perhaps it will become too dear now and we've still got Brittany lamb left...far superior quality!

[Chuff]

	Quote:
	There is hearsay, and hearsay... the ones related to me were by good friends and relatives I can trust.

You are the queen of anecdotal bullshit. Same with Blueangel.

You appear so far detached from modern reality that I don't trust a single thing you say.

	Quote:	amogles
	It would seem that Juncker is now seeking revenge over Brexit. His plan is to dismantle the USA. Good luck with that Jean Claude. And happy April 1st (which seems to have come a day early this year). https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/0...te-break-usa/# http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/...-offer-support

This in a nutshell is why so many people voted to leave. Junker and his ilk literally see themselves as the leaders of a United States of Europe. Junker really believes that Europe is comparable to the USA.

	Quote:	Loz1983
	This in a nutshell is why so many people voted to leave. Junker and his ilk literally see themselves as the leaders of a United States of Europe. Junker really believes that Europe is comparable to the USA.

Quite literally. They make no secret of the fact that their intention is to create a single European state, with its own currency, its own economic policy, its own army, its own government. This is not conspiracy talk - it's right there in all the documents and speeches and press releases that somehow - for reasons I don't quite understand - millions of people completely ignore. Is cheap Boursin really more important than national self-determination?


Mr Juncker may have been making a joke on this occasion (I haven't seen the comment in context), but the intent behind it is clear.

[Chuff]

	Quote:
	Quite literally. They make no secret of the fact that their intention is to create a single European state, with its own currency, its own economic policy, its own army, its own government. This is not conspiracy talk - it's right there in all the documents and speeches and press releases that somehow - for reasons I've never quite understood - millions of people completely ignore. Is cheap Boursin really more important than national self-determination? Mr Juncker may have been making a joke on this occasion (I haven't seen the comment in context), but the intent behind it is clear.

The irony is that it could never function because all European states are not equal in terms of ability to contribute... not by a long chalk.

It's a nice idea in theory, a peaceful and integrative utopia, but just not practical with the current state of the world.

[greenmount]

	Quote:
	Mr Juncker may have been making a joke on this occasion (I haven't seen the comment in context), but the intent behind it is clear.

But...Mr. Juncker is old! I seriously doubt he'll have a big impact in a few more years.

	Quote:	Chuff
	The irony is that it could never function because all European states are not equal in terms of ability to contribute... not by a long chalk. It's a nice idea in theory, a peaceful and integrative utopia, but just not practical with the current state of the world.

It isn't functioning now - just ask the Greeks and Spaniards!


I went to Constance a couple of weeks ago. It wasn't really a shopping trip, but I picked up a couple of items because they were so cheap. It wasn't until I got in the car to go home that it dawned on me that those trousers were cheap at the expense of the livelihoods and prospects of millions of young southern Europeans.


Being the total hypocrite that I am, though, I'm still going to wear the trousers. I mean, the calf is already slaughtered, right?

	Quote:	greenmount
	But...Mr. Juncker is old! I seriously doubt he'll have a big impact in a few years years.

He is just one of many.

[Slaphead]

	Quote:	davebergie
	I have just come across this thread and it now has 400+ pages, which I don't have a lifetime to wade through! What is the consensus on what the restrictions for Brits will be in CH after Brexit. Is it going to be like Australians, who can only come for three months, do we think?

Nobody knows, and nor will they know for sure until that aspect of the divorce negotiations is finalised.

If the negotiations break down on this aspect, and there is no bilateral agreement directly between the UK and Switzerland then it would likely be that Brits looking to move here would be on the same footing as all other non EU countries.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	McTAVGE
	Go and wash your mouth soap! NEW ZEALAND lamb??? Why get your lamb meat from the other side of the world when you could get gorgeous Welsh lamb or lamb from the salt marshes of Brittany? Or from the Scottish Highlands? This is the kind of trade that should have been better encouraged within the EU. The NZ lamb made its way in via the U.K., so perhaps it will become too dear now and we've still got Brittany lamb left...far superior quality!

First time I had New Zealand lamb in years, tasted way better than British lamb I have eaten in the last 30 years. Remember whats sold as Lamb today would have been mutton when I was a child.

[Stoker177]

	Quote:	marton
	But the UK plans to adopt the same (EU based) WTO tariffs so no chance of cheaper meat

Meat in the UK is already filthy cheap....£20 per KG for Sirloin steak as opposed to CHF 200 per KG for the equivalent cut here in CH.

	Quote:
	Mr Juncker may have been making a joke on this occasion (I haven't seen the comment in context), but the intent behind it is clear.

I watched it and it really doesn't look like he's joking. Not sure if deadpan is a Luxembourg thang though.

	Quote:	Chuff
	The irony is that it could never function because all European states are not equal in terms of ability to contribute... not by a long chalk. It's a nice idea in theory, a peaceful and integrative utopia, but just not practical with the current state of the world.

The time they made their intention clear with the EU constitution it was rejected when put to public vote. Now they're just proceeding on the sly.

	Quote:	Loz1983
	The time they made their intention clear with the EU constitution it was rejected when put to public vote. Now they're just proceeding on the sly.

"We decide on something, leave it lying around and wait and see what happens. If no one kicks up a fuss, because most people don't understand what has been decided, we continue step by step until there is no turning back."


"If it's a Yes, we will say 'on we go', and if it's a No we will say 'we continue'."


"I am determined, as is the Government, to do everything to preserve everything that we have worked for and that we believe in … by using all necessary means "


"Britain is different. Of course there will be transfers of sovereignty. But would I be intelligent to draw the attention of public opinion to this fact?"


"There is a single legal personality for the EU, the primacy of European law, a new architecture for foreign and security policy, there is an enormous extension in the fields of the EU's powers, there is Charter of Fundamental Rights. "


"I am for secret, dark debates."


"There can be no democratic choice against the European treaties"

- JC Juncker

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	davebergie
	What is the consensus on what the restrictions for Brits will be in CH after Brexit. Is it going to be like Australians, who can only come for three months, do we think?

Don't know. All I do know is that when we got our B permits, my partner's is for 5yrs and mine is for 2yrs. Does make me wonder is Migrationsamt are being cautious until they see how the next 2yrs pan out.

	Quote:	Chuff
	You are the queen of anecdotal bullshit. Same with Blueangel. You appear so far detached from modern reality that I don't trust a single thing you say.

I couldn't give a flying eff if you trust me or not. I'm not here to curry your favour, neither would I care for it, but I have absolutely no reason to lie.

It stands to reason that we're all individuals and all have different experiences, and I'm glad to see that RufusB and Swisstree haven't experienced any of the things that I have over the last year. I really want that to be the norm, but I would be lying if I said that I haven't seen a change and haven't had people be openly bigoted in their dealings with me. It isn't because of me as a person, it's been because of my plans, my current home location and my partner. For me, the classic comment came from the owner of the biggest central heating and plumbing contractor in my home town, and I quote...

"Because you're going to be renting your house out, you don't want to put gas fires in it in case you get one of these foreigners renting the place. Foreigners don't know how to use gas fires so they're a fire risk as tenants. Mind you...they'll all be gone soon."

For balance, I have to measure this against the same person's next comment to my partner...
"Your name? It's foreign is it?"
"Yes. My family are Greek but I was born and raised in South Africa."
"So where did you learn English then?"

My partner's brother in Manchester, who did surrender his SA passport for a British one many years ago, has had several business clients say that he'll be alright because he speaks English and is "one of us, not like 'them'. They'll have to go."

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	My partner's brother in Manchester, who did surrender his SA passport for a British one many years ago, has had several business clients say that he'll be alright because he speaks English and is "one of us, not like 'them'. They'll have to go."

Why did he do that unless he wanted to get out of military service, plenty of people have both passports.

[baboon]

	Quote:
	"We decide on something, leave it lying around and wait and see what happens. If no one kicks up a fuss, because most people don't understand what has been decided, we continue step by step until there is no turning back." "If it's a Yes, we will say 'on we go', and if it's a No we will say 'we continue'." "I am determined, as is the Government, to do everything to preserve everything that we have worked for and that we believe in … by using all necessary means " "Britain is different. Of course there will be transfers of sovereignty. But would I be intelligent to draw the attention of public opinion to this fact?" "There is a single legal personality for the EU, the primacy of European law, a new architecture for foreign and security policy, there is an enormous extension in the fields of the EU's powers, there is Charter of Fundamental Rights. " "I am for secret, dark debates." "There can be no democratic choice against the European treaties" - JC Juncker

...almost all taken wholly out of context.

Take the "I am for secret, dark debates". he was specifically talking here about economic and monetary policy and the need to avoid dangerous speculation in the markets. In other words exactly what every single government everywhere does on economic and monetary policy.

"We decide on something, leave it lying around and wait and see what happens. If no one kicks up a fuss, because most people don't understand what has been decided, we continue step by step until there is no turning back." - talking (possibly less than complementary) about the European council. Actually exactly the way the UK cabinet works.

"I am determined, as is the Government, to do everything to preserve everything that we have worked for and that we believe in … by using all necessary means " Wouldn't you expect every honorable politician to believe this?

"there can be no democratic choice against the European treaties. One cannot exit the euro without leaving the EU" (note use of the full quote) - telling the Greeks (correctly) that their treaty obligations mean that if they leave the Euro they would also have to leave the EU.

Context makes all the difference. BTW I stopped checking after these 4.

	Quote:	Blueangel
	For me, the classic comment came from the owner of the biggest central heating and plumbing contractor in my home town, and I quote... "Because you're going to be renting your house out, you don't want to put gas fires in it in case you get one of these foreigners renting the place. Foreigners don't know how to use gas fires so they're a fire risk as tenants. Mind you...they'll all be gone soon." For balance, I have to measure this against the same person's next comment to my partner... "Your name? It's foreign is it?" "Yes. My family are Greek but I was born and raised in South Africa." "So where did you learn English then?" My partner's brother in Manchester, who did surrender his SA passport for a British one many years ago, has had several business clients say that he'll be alright because he speaks English and is "one of us, not like 'them'. They'll have to go."

But none of this is new. Some people have always been racist and xenophobic. When I moved into a house in Birmingham, the first thing a neighbour said to me was: "You'll like it round here, there ain't no niggers or pakis in this area". That was in 1997. When I ran an integration unit for refugees we had to be quiet about what we did in case we roused the ire of the local population. That was in 2001. We still got burned down. When a Mediterranean looking kid joined my primary school, the playground was filled with rumours about the "nig nog" who had arrived. That was in 1978. Back when I was a kid, the National Front openly marched through the streets, indulged in regular bouts of paki-bashing and intimidated Indian immigrants in their own homes. Leicester City Council placed adverts in African newspapers warning Indians not to move there. In the nineties, the British National Party had councillors elected up and down the country on a platform of sending them all back and making Britain white again.


This idea that somehow the British have suddenly become racist as a result of voting for Brexit is nonsense. Quite honestly, you'd have to be very white and very middle class to believe that. Racism and xenophobia have always been there.


And if you still don't believe me, here's a report on the topic:


http://www.civitas.org.uk/content/fi...eheadlines.pdf

	Quote:	baboon
	Context makes all the difference. BTW I stopped checking after these 4.

Sure. All of these quotes are perfectly fitting for someone leading a government.


But Mr Juncker doesn't lead a government - or so we were repeatedly reassured. Except he does. When it suits.


This is exactly the sort of thing to which I - and millions of other Europeans - object.

[baboon]

	Quote:	Stoker177
	Meat in the UK is already filthy cheap....£20 per KG for Sirloin steak as opposed to CHF 200 per KG for the equivalent cut here in CH.

Otherwise known as CHF 50 - 70 per Kg for most of us. You been buying Kobe beef by mistake?

[greenmount]

	Quote:
	Sure. All of these quotes are perfectly fitting for someone leading a government. But Mr Juncker doesn't lead a government - or so we were repeatedly reassured. Except he does. When it suits. This is exactly the sort of thing to which I - and millions of other Europeans - object.

You mean British people. As far as I know there was no other similar referendum so far.