The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	chrissie7
	Not this myth of high benefits again! Anyone who loses their job in Switzerland should count their lucky stars they don't live in the UK. I don't think anyone would call jobseekers allowance (or income support) of £73/week as too high. Everything is means tested, such as housing benefit (which normally does not cover 100% rent) council tax, child support, etc. If you have a mortgage, nothing is paid for the first 39 weeks and then only a portion of the interest. At least here unemployment benefit is an insurance and not part of the social security system - ie, it is a right. Most people can live on 70% or 80% of their former salary and it is paid for up to two years.

Well in the UK 50% of families get 50% of their income from tax credits & housing benefits, so it's less of an issue. Free health care as well.
Why should capital of mortgages be paid with benefits? clearly only mortgage interest is paid.

Unless your over 55 in CH you do not receive unemployment pay for 2 years. whilst a rahemnfrist is 2 years only 400 work days are payable. (18 months)

[marton]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	If you were sick, would you really want to have someone looking after you, who might not be suitable for the job and does not want to be there, in charge of your care....

Better than nobody there to care for me

	Quote:	Odile
	Of course, we all knew that being part of Single Market but without the regs and free movement of people would NOT be possilble. It was clear right from the start to anyone who did their few minutes of homework, and listen to Prof Dougan - and even more so for any of us in Switzerland- who has and still is, trying to sort this out since Feb 2014. So which was it when the Leavers even at the very top said 'leaving the single market' would never happen? A) Were they really that gullible, stupid and ignorant? B) Or did they, again, deliberately lied to sway the vote? Please vote A) or B)

C) They said the UK would be leaving the single market all along.

https://twitter.com/daily_politics/s...62412338999297

In fact, are you Nick Clegg??

[marton]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	C) They said the UK would be leaving the single market all along. https://twitter.com/daily_politics/s...62412338999297 In fact, are you Nick Clegg??

And on the other hand

	Quote:
	Boris Johnson: UK will 'still have access to single market’ despite Brexit Conservative Party leadership frontrunner says cooperation with Europe will 'intensify'

Source

[Urs Max]

	Quote:	greenmount
	I think EU will have a difficult task to negotiate a lot of things, not only UK. This is the moment when I expect Juncker et co. to quit all that gibberish and start being pragmatic for once. Everybody has interests to protect.

It doesn't matter what Juncker does, he'll be blamed regardless.

Remember his proposal with the five possible ways for EU to develop? THAT was the perfect occasion for loz et al to weigh in and have EU alter course. Instead he was even criticized for his audacity to actually ask! It's much easier to criticize than to be constructive.

Juncker is too good of a punching bag to be let go. Since he's the default culprit no reasoning is necessary, he's guilty even before any race has started.

It's the same "game" as with the NHS's £350mln. And of course, people like Farage have no interest whatsoever in an actual solution.

[McTAVGE]

	Quote:	marton
	I have a Swiss friend who was the manageress of the in house restaurant for the HQ of a major Swiss firm. They outsourced the catering and as she was over 50 was unable to find a similar job. So she took a course and now gets up early and wipes bottoms in the local old people's home.

But for more than 6.00 GBP / hour!

[Odile]

	Quote:
	Nice. You know I've lost my job, but you still have to get a dig in about "high salaries". Some of us only have one passport, you know. I, too, might have to return to England at some point, except unlike you I might not be able to take my family with me. You have no idea how privileged you are, Odile. No idea at all.

I am so sorry you lost your job. But with unemployment benefits at 80% of salary for almost 2 years starting in a few months- plenty of time to find another job. As for UK, no problem in taking a non EU wife to UKwith a teacher salary. With your experience around 30 to 38K in UK (you need a salary of 18.600 to bring your wife, and 27.200 with 3 kids) and with the sale of a Swiss house with the £ being so low- should be fine. Agreed that among expats here, a teacher salary is low by comparison to the average EF salary. But my post was not personal- as you are not the only one who voted 'leave' it seems. And you did make it clear before many times you had no intention to go back- so I hope you do get a new job soon.

Good luck with the job search, and I can assure you I am fully aware of how privileged we are- despite losing 60% so far on our income. Totally.

Which is why I am concerned about my loved ones in UK, our grandchildren - and even more about all the people who voted 'leave' because they were pumped full of lies and have little chance of finding another unskilled job if their employer goes down the tubes due to Brexit. Sad- tragic. Many people leave school unskilled - and most of them are not oiks (whatever they are).

	Quote:	Odile
	I am so sorry you lost your job. But with unemployment benefits at 80% of salary for almost 2 years starting in a few months- plenty of time to find another job. As for UK, no problem in taking a non EU wife to UKwith a teacher salary. With your experience around 30 to 38K in UK (you need a salary of 18.600 to bring your wife, and 27.200 with 3 kids) and with the sale of a Swiss house with the £ being so low- should be fine. Agreed that among expats here, a teacher salary is low by comparison to the average EF salary. But my post was not personal- as you are not the only one who voted 'leave' it seems. And you did make it clear before many times you had no intention to go back- so I hope you do get a new job soon. Good luck with the job search, and I can assure you I am fully aware of how privileged we are- despite losing 60% so far on our income. Totally. Which is why I am concerned about my loved ones in UK, our grandchildren - and even more about all the people who voted 'leave' because they were pumped full of lies and have little chance of finding another unskilled job if their employer goes down the tubes due to Brexit. Sad- tragic. Many people leave school unskilled - and most of them are not oiks (whatever they are).

Sorry - I lost my rag a bit earlier. The prospect of unemployment is scaring the crap out of me, and it was wrong of me to take it out on you.

[Odile]

I can assure you I totally get that. And my good wishes are 100% sincere- as you know. Bonne chance.

[McTAVGE]

But if you are 50+ in Switzerland (and elsewhere), your chances of finding a job are significantly reduced. A lot of friends are in this situation, having always enjoyed a high standard of living in CH, and now, next to nothing, at an age when you should be settling and enjoying life. It scares the hell out of me.


At least the EU enables me to move to where the jobs are, if it comes to it one day, without too many obstacles in the way.

[lewton]

	Quote:
	I don't feel guilt. Just pity.

Oh wow, so you are still human!

[marton]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	C) They said the UK would be leaving the single market all along. https://twitter.com/daily_politics/s...62412338999297 In fact, are you Nick Clegg??

Perhaps you can also find the link where they said UK would lose Gibraltar, Scotland and NI

[lewton]

	Quote:	marton
	Perhaps you can also find the link where they said UK would lose Gibraltar, Scotland and NI

The UK won't lose Gibraltar.
Spain is not going to attack so you don't need to start paying for maintenance of the rusty Royal Navy ships.
Spain will only close the border.

[meloncollie]

Slightly OT, but:

	Quote:	Odile
	(you need a salary of 18.600 to bring your wife, and 27.200 with 3 kids)

Just a note: This assumes that the children are not UK citizens. If the children are already UK citizens and thus have an automatic right to live in the UK all that is needed is the 18,600 salary from employment to sponsor the non-citizen spouse.

You can also qualify by savings, or a combination of savings and the UK sponsor's employment.


If a move to the UK is in the cards, a good forum is:
http://talk.uk-yankee.com


The folks in the visa and citizenship section really do seem to know their stuff.


Now back to Brexit...

	Quote:	marton
	Perhaps you can also find the link where they said UK would lose Gibraltar, Scotland and NI

The UK won't "lose" Gibraltar, Scotland or NI. Those countries should be given referendums and if they choose to they can decide to go. However only after Brexit has taken place.

Spain like their vernacular cousins in Argentina are just making noise over foreign territories as it's a nice way to deflect from the fact that their country is going to shit. Someone should have a conversation with them over Ceuta and Melilla.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Spain like their vernacular cousins in Argentina are just making noise over foreign territories as it's a nice way to deflect from the fact that their country is going to shit. Someone should have a conversation with them over Ceuta and Melilla.

Except that the Spanish economy is recovering and ironically the members of the British government who expected the EU states to put commerce before principles find that they are now the ones to have to make that decision.

	Quote:	Jim2007
	Except that the Spanish economy is recovering and ironically the members of the British government who expected the EU states to put commerce before principles find that they are now the ones to have to make that decision.

45% Youth unemployment, 23% total unemployment, together with their own secession problems. They've still got some way to go.

[marton]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	The UK won't "lose" Gibraltar, Scotland or NI. Those countries should be given referendums and if they choose to they can decide to go. However only after Brexit has taken place. Spain like their vernacular cousins in Argentina are just making noise over foreign territories as it's a nice way to deflect from the fact that their country is going to shit. Someone should have a conversation with them over Ceuta and Melilla.

Those three all voted to stay in the EU.

Smart move for Gibraltar would be to follow the example of Malta and join the EU as an independent state.

[baboon]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	45% Youth unemployment, 23% total unemployment, together with their own secession problems. They've still got some way to go.

You shouldn't just trust the first graph you get on Google. That was 2015, now 18%. Still way too high but wth a 5 point improvement moving very much in the right direction and projected to continue doing so.

[marton]

	Quote:	baboon
	You shouldn't just trust the first graph you get on Google. That was 2015, now 18%. Still way too high but wth a 5 point improvement moving very much in the right direction and projected to continue doing so.

In fact the whole eurozone is improving
"Eurozone unemployment sinks to 9.5%, a near eight-year low"

This article also confirms 18% in Spain; some people like to quote old newspaper articles