The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

	Quote:	marton
	In fact the whole eurozone is improving "Eurozone unemployment sinks to 9.5%, a near eight-year low" This article also confirms 18% in Spain; some people like to quote old newspaper articles

Oooh, 18% unemployment. Nearly 1 in 5 reliant on the state. Let's have a party.

"The whole Eurozone is improving".

The whole Western world is improving. This has nothing to do with the Eurozone.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Spain like their vernacular cousins in Argentina are just making noise over foreign territories as it's a nice way to deflect from the fact that their country is going to shit. Someone should have a conversation with them over Ceuta and Melilla.

I don't read the situation that way at all. The EU have given the lion's share of negotiation powers on this one issue to Spain, purely because they share a border and are most affected by the change. I totally get the reasoning behind that.

What I take exception to is a dill brain like Michael Howard making his ill judged comparisons between Thatcher and the Falklands, and May and Gibraltar. Crass, sexist, sabre rattling dullard stirring the pot to get his face in the papers again.

[marton]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Oooh, 18% unemployment. Nearly 1 in 5 reliant on the state. Let's have a party. "The whole Eurozone is improving". The whole Western world is improving. This has nothing to do with the Eurozone.

"This has nothing to do with the Eurozone." Would you care to explain? Are you claiming the the Eurozone is not improving

The Western world is defined as including all cultures that are directly derived from and influenced by European cultures, i.e.
Europe (at least the European Union member states, EFTA countries, European microstates);
in the Americas (e.g. Argentina, Brazil, Canada, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Cuba, Mexico, United States of America, Uruguay, Venezuela),
and in Oceania (Australia and New Zealand).
Together these countries constitute Western society.
But many of these are missing from your graph

Since when was Japan in the Western world?

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Oooh, 18% unemployment. Nearly 1 in 5 reliant on the state. Let's have a party.

Yes and it is heading in the right direction, so why not have a party!

[marton]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	I don't read the situation that way at all. The EU have given the lion's share of negotiation powers on this one issue to Spain, purely because they share a border and are most affected by the change. I totally get the reasoning behind that. What I take exception to is a dill brain like Michael Howard making his ill judged comparisons between Thatcher and the Falklands, and May and Gibraltar. Crass, sexist, sabre rattling dullard stirring the pot to get his face in the papers again.

The EU explanation was that in a border dispute between member states they do not take sides.

For border disputes between member states and non EU states they support their members.

Sounds fair and reasonable?

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	marton
	"This has nothing to do with the Eurozone." Would you care to explain? Are you claiming the the Eurozone is not improving

Come on now, you know what it means - If it is negative it's the Euro's fault, if it's positive it can't possible have anything to do with it.

[lewton]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	The UK won't "lose" Gibraltar, Scotland or NI. Those countries should be given referendums and if they choose to they can decide to go. However only after Brexit has taken place. Spain like their vernacular cousins in Argentina are just making noise over foreign territories as it's a nice way to deflect from the fact that their country is going to shit. Someone should have a conversation with them over Ceuta and Melilla.

Does Spain have the right to close the border with Gibraltar post Brexit?
You are focusing too much on the possibility of a war, and choosing to ignore the fact that post Brexit Spain won't have any obligation to keep letting people and stuff through.

(If we go to war over Gibraltar, I only ask the English to speak slowly and not to use phrasal verbs, for the sake of a fair fight)

	Quote:	Blueangel
	What I take exception to is a dill brain like Michael Howard making his ill judged comparisons between Thatcher and the Falklands, and May and Gibraltar. Crass, sexist, sabre rattling dullard stirring the pot to get his face in the papers again.

Michael Howard is not in government. Who cares what he thinks?

	Quote:	marton
	"This has nothing to do with the Eurozone." Would you care to explain? Are you claiming the the Eurozone is not improving The Western world is defined as including all cultures that are directly derived from and influenced by European cultures, i.e. Europe (at least the European Union member states, EFTA countries, European microstates); in the Americas (e.g. Argentina, Brazil, Canada, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Cuba, Mexico, United States of America, Uruguay, Venezuela), and in Oceania (Australia and New Zealand). Together these countries constitute Western society. But many of these are missing from your graph Since when was Japan in the Western world?

"I know I'm wrong so I will deflect from the issue"

	Quote:	Jim2007
	Come on now, you know what it means - If it is negative it's the Euro's fault, if it's positive it can't possible have anything to do with it.

If the Eurozone was recovering significantly better than the rest of the developed world then they'd warrant respect. Until then, they warrant nothing.

	Quote:	lewton
	Does Spain have the right to close the border with Gibraltar post Brexit? You are focusing too much on the possibility of a war, and choosing to ignore the fact that post Brexit Spain won't have any obligation to keep letting people and stuff through.

Who mentioned anything about a war?

Spain can do what they want post Brexit. However if they were to close the border then it'd reveal how petty minded they are. Who are they going to harm by doing this? The UK? Of course not. The only people who'd feel the effects would be the Gibraltarians who Spain want to rule. This would be the behaviour of a bully.

The UK can't pick and choose- ask for borders to be closed but want Gib to remain opened. Surely. And yes, Howard did hint about war- he didn't use the word as such, but the message was very clear 'Mrs Thatcher went to war over the Falklands, and Mrs May would do it again for Gibraltar'. Such sabre rattling at this stage is so stupid, dangerous and irresponsible.

, Well done Michael Howard! I see you haven't changed a bit since the days you were leader of the Tory Party; you're still the same smug, useless, self-satisfied, obnoxious little wart that we used to hate back in 2003/5. Here's your crowning achievement - to single-handedly stuff the Union in one ill-considered, pompous and pretentious statement.

For those who missed it, today Mikey reminded everyone that back in the days of Maggie we went to war against a bunch of Dagoes (the Argentines) trying to take away a prized British possession (the Falklands). Now another bunch of Dagoes (the Spanish) want to prize Gibraltar away from us, and since Maggie May is just as much the Iron Lady as her predecessor, THIS MEANS WAR! Huzzah!

Unfortunately, the Spanish are not as stupid as Mikey believes; they immediately countered with the news that they will drop their opposition to Scotland joining the EU when it leaves the UK, thereby at a single stroke of Mikey's pen vastly increasing the likelihood of Nicola winning her Referendum. Up till today, having to leave the EU was the only serious obstacle in the path of a viable independent Scotland.

Did Mikey and his idiot friends not stop to consider that the Spanish have been waiting centuries for an opportunity like this, only to have it handed to them on a plate by the Brexit dimwits? As for the Gibraltarians, who voted 98% to stay in the EU, I'm sorry you've been stuffed too, but at least your wishes are easily achieved with dual nationality. After all, who in their right mind would want to stay in a union with Little England after this debacle is all over?

How in hell would we go to war against Spain anyway? Send our rusty rowing boats to invade Torremolinos and Benidorm, perhaps? Maybe they expect the million-odd geriatric expats there to put down their G&Ts and rise up against their evil overlords?

There's only one loser in all this; the English people, one of which I would very much like not to be. There are no words to express the depth of contempt in which I hold those of my countrymen who voted blindly to bring disaster down on themselves, egged on by a cabal of unpatriotic swine whose only desire is more power for themselves and screw the rest of the population.

You should have done it yesterday, Mikey; at least on April 1st it would have made sense.'

	Quote:
	The UK can't pick and choose- ask for borders to be closed but want Gib to remain opened. Surely. And yes, Howard did hint about war- he didn't use the word as such, but the message was very clear 'Mrs Thatcher went to war over the Falklands, and Mrs May would do it again for Gibraltar'. Such sabre rattling at this stage is so stupid, dangerous and irresponsible.

Since when were the opinions of one retired MP "sabre rattling"?

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Since when were the opinions of one retired MP "sabre rattling"?

On balance I would say he probably carries more weight than Farage who is a nobody and never was in government but never lets that get in the way of vomiting up his opinion at every available opportunity.

Having said that, I'm not sure much will happen with Gibraltar post-Brexit. There is too much cross-border business and employment to upset.

Most likely they are using it as a massive distraction while they stumble around trying to knit the fog and herd the cats with Brussels.

Since it was not firmly stamped on by Mrs May and her Government. Unfortunately, this has been picked up by all the world's Press and TVs- and the Spanish, and the Argentines, etc- who are not aware that he is retired. the damage is done- unless the GVT firmly refute this and clearly say 'Mr Howard is retired and he does NOT represent us/The UK'. The article in the Telegraph has also been picked up by the world - with such stupid and such Imperialist style conclusion that 'we could still singe the King of Spain's beard' from 500 years ago à la 'Britannia rules the waves' ...! How inflammatory and damaging can that be- and so stupid as it is clear that the military capacity of the UK is so diminished

From another friend:

I don't want a blue passport (at the cost of £500m)
I don't want Imperial measurements
I don't want asylum seekers beaten up
I don't want 92% of European NHS staff to make plans to leave the UK
I don't want to go to war with Spain
I don't want to live in some glorious Imperial past that never existed
I don't want everything to get more expensive
I don't want to be on the side of Trump, Putin, Wilders and Le Pen
I don't want to live in an isolated monolingual, monocultural country
I don't want all this time, money and energy to be spent on this suicidal farce when so many public services are in crisis (and not because of migrants - whatever the Mail says - but because of decades of underinvestment)
I just want some reason and sense to come back into our lives.

Did he threaten to overrule the border?

[st2lemans]

	Quote:
	Now another bunch of Dagoes Dagos (the Spanish) want to prize prise Gibraltar away from us

FTFY.

And please stop with the racial slurs.

Tom

[greenmount]

	Quote:
	I am so sorry you lost your job. But with unemployment benefits at 80% of salary for almost 2 years starting in a few months- plenty of time to find another job. As for UK, no problem in taking a non EU wife to UKwith a teacher salary. With your experience around 30 to 38K in UK (you need a salary of 18.600 to bring your wife, and 27.200 with 3 kids) and with the sale of a Swiss house with the £ being so low- should be fine. Agreed that among expats here, a teacher salary is low by comparison to the average EF salary. But my post was not personal- as you are not the only one who voted 'leave' it seems. And you did make it clear before many times you had no intention to go back- so I hope you do get a new job soon. Good luck with the job search, and I can assure you I am fully aware of how privileged we are- despite losing 60% so far on our income. Totally. Which is why I am concerned about my loved ones in UK, our grandchildren - and even more about all the people who voted 'leave' because they were pumped full of lies and have little chance of finding another unskilled job if their employer goes down the tubes due to Brexit. Sad- tragic. Many people leave school unskilled - and most of them are not oiks (whatever they are).

What is shocking for me is the fact that as a UK citizen you need special approval and criteria met to be able to bring your family????

Excuse me but this looks outrageous even for someone who has absolutely nothing to do with whatever situation. It can't be.

	Quote:	greenmount
	What is shocking for me is the fact that as a UK citizen you need special approval and criteria met to be able to bring your family???? Excuse me but this looks outrageous even for someone who has absolutely nothing to do with whatever situation. It can't be.

I think it's something similar here, though. You have to be able to show you can support your family with a minimum amount. There are threads on here when newbies are looking to bring the fambly over to CH to join them (reunification, or some such?).

[greenmount]

	Quote:
	I think it's something similar here, though. You have to be able to show you can support your family with a minimum amount. There are threads on here when newbies are looking to bring the fambly over to CH to join them (reunification, or some such?).

Yes of course, for foreigners - which is normal after all, but do you also mean the Swiss born and bred who lived outside Switzerland for a number of years? (and made a family abroad)

I though it had to do more with repatriation laws....or rights.

	Quote:	greenmount
	Yes of course, for foreigners - which is normal after all, but do you also mean the Swiss born and bred who lived outside Switzerland for a number of years?

Yes, if you are resident here (foreigner or Swiss), and you want to bring over a non-EU spouse you have to demonstrate you can support them or they can't come.

I guess if DB returns to the UK, he has to do the same.*


* I could be talking utter pants but that's the snippets I picked up from threads on the subject..

[st2lemans]

	Quote:	greenmount
	What is shocking for me is the fact that as a UK citizen you need special approval and criteria met to be able to bring your family???? Excuse me but this looks outrageous even for someone who has absolutely nothing to do with whatever situation. It can't be.

Been that way for years, here too (even for Swiss).

Kids generally won't be a problem, as they normally will have citizenship, the problem is the spouse.

Tom