The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[Urs Max]

	Quote:	marton
	True about resident permits, the elephant in the room is what happens at resident permit renewal time.

From what I remember, for you who are here already nothing changes. Rights gained under the EU treaties persist even if the treaties are canceled.

ETA:
Here's the treaty (no English version on admin.ch) on FMOP.
An "Anwartschaft" is the expectation that a right will be granted, subject to certain conditions that have not been met yet but are extected to be, e.g. getting a C permit based on you already having a B plus whatever conditions apply. So whether those with a B permit will get a C permit is subject to negotiations. Those with a C will keep it.

Article 23:
"Im Falle der Kündigung oder der Nichtverlängerung des Abkommens bleiben die erworbenen Ansprüche von Einzelnen unberührt. Die Vertragsparteien treffen im gegenseitigen Einvernehmen eine Regelung für die Anwartschaften."

[baboon]

	Quote:	Urs Max
	From what I remember, for you who are here already nothing changes. Rights gained under the EU treaties persist even if the treaties are canceled.

IIRC that is not generally so for UK-EU BUT is explicitly guaranteed under the Swiss bilaterals.

[Urs Max]

	Quote:	baboon
	IIRC that is not generally so for UK-EU BUT is explicitly guaranteed under the Swiss bilaterals.

I make no such claim. The post I replied to os on UK/CH relations and the Bilaterale hence "here".

[baboon]

	Quote:	Urs Max
	The post I replied to was on UK/CH relations and the Bilaterale. I'm speaking about "here", not the EU.

Was trying to add to your post, not criticise.

[marton]

The European court of justice has raised a ray of hope for British trade negotiators with a surprise ruling that will make it harder for national parliaments to block key components of any future post-Brexit deal between the EU and the UK.

In a long-awaited test case that had been expected to complicate the Brexit process, the court instead ruled that EU officials had exclusive powers to negotiate international trade deals without ratification by national and regional parliaments.

Source

Nice change to see some good news!

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	marton
	The European court of justice has raised a ray of hope for British trade negotiators with a surprise ruling that will make it harder for national parliaments to block key components of any future post-Brexit deal between the EU and the UK. In a long-awaited test case that had been expected to complicate the Brexit process, the court instead ruled that EU officials had exclusive powers to negotiate international trade deals without ratification by national and regional parliaments. Source Nice change to see some good news!

So the EU is softening as zero deal means zero payment from the UK

[koblenz]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-40095822

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40082912

more potential consequences reported

[Khawer]

Anybody wants to comment on the implications of brexit on British living in Switzerland?

[koblenz]

	Quote:	Khawer
	Anybody wants to comment on the implications of brexit on British living in Switzerland?

Which implications?

[Khawer]

Will there be additional process steps for work permit? or restricted?
or possibly tighter quota?

[koblenz]

	Quote:	Khawer
	Will there be additional process steps for work permit? or restricted? or possibly tighter quota?

I doubt it. Nothing has been announced as yet and these things take a long time to change.

Moreover Iceland and Norway are not in the EU and their citizens have more or less the same rights in CH as EU citizens since they are part of EFTA. Personally I would expect the UK to simply drop into this category (whether they join EFTA or not), which would mean little or no change really.
I can't see CH wanting to be any stricter with UK passport holders, though anything is possible. There are hardly tens of thousands of Brits queueing up at the CH borders! Well not at present anyway.

How long have you been in CH and what permit are you on?

[grumpygrapefruit]

Why not just read this thread?

https://www.englishforum.ch/daily-li...-brits-ch.html

[koblenz]

	Quote:	grumpygrapefruit
	Why not just read this thread? https://www.englishforum.ch/daily-li...-brits-ch.html

The OP may need to take a week off work to do so.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	koblenz
	I doubt it. Nothing has been announced as yet and these things take a long time to change. Moreover Iceland and Norway are not in the EU and their citizens have more or less the same rights in CH as EU citizens since they are part of EFTA. Personally I would expect the UK to simply drop into this category (whether they join EFTA or not), which would mean little or no change really. I can't see CH wanting to be any stricter with UK passport holders, though anything is possible. There are hardly tens of thousands of Brits queueing up at the CH borders! Well not at present anyway. How long have you been in CH and what permit are you on?

As it stands once the U.K. leaves the EU, it must be treated as a third country in accordance with the bilateral agreement. It will be very difficult to change that status for two reasons, it would require a change to the bilateral agreement with the EU and would face pressure from other third countries such as the US, Canada etc. for similar treatment. Given that Switzerland is seeking to restart bilateral negotiations with the EU it is unlikely that such an issue will be high on the agenda.

That leaves the EFTA option and here it is hard to imagine the U.K. leaving the EU only to join EFTA a few weeks later. If only because Norway appears to be at best reluctant about the possibility! Furthermore while we have heard that the U.K. has been preparing it's WTO application there is no mention of EFTA.

The other unknown is the UK's priorities on Switzerland after BREXIT, they face an unprecedented demand in the number of agreements the need to put in place and I doubt Switzerland will be in their top 20.

I think we have to expect that for up to five years at least after BREXIT, the U.K. will be treated as a third country for permit purposes.

[koblenz]

Thank you for your very good post.

I have asked the OP which permit they have as I think anyone with a C-permit is not really going to be affected by Brexit with regard to their immigration status here.

[FrankZappa]

For Britons who work in Switzerland but live in France or Germany, I think it will be the end of the road.

Britons will no longer be "Europeans", so they cannot be frontaliers.

Options, IMHO, either take a European nationality or move to Switzerland.

Added later: This opinion may be wrong. It may still be doable. Expert opinion needed...

For us UK retirees in Switzerland, the issues will be first exchange rates- then whether reciprocal health care agreement will still stand, probably not, and whether pensions will continue to be index linked, probably not.

Scary and very unsettling times. Few British retirees in Switzerland- but 1000s in France and Spain- who now face the prospect of having to return to UK- without being able to sell their house, and with all savings having been spent on house and renovations- who will need housing (we wouldn't thank goodness), social/financial support (we wouldn't thank goodness) and lots of healthcare - as yes, older retirees do, unfortunately- that would put huge pressure on services.

[grumpygrapefruit]

	Quote:	koblenz
	The OP may need to take a week off work to do so.

But he asked for opinions and all of our opinions are already there. Why should we write them all out again?

And a week? I could read that in a few hours.

[koblenz]

	Quote:
	For us UK retirees in Switzerland, the issues will be first exchange rates- then whether reciprocal health care agreement will still stand, probably not, and whether pensions will continue to be index linked, probably not. Scary and very unsettling times. Few British retirees in Switzerland- but 1000s in France and Spain- who now face the prospect of having to return to UK- without being able to sell their house, and with all savings having been spent on house and renovations- who will need housing (we wouldn't thank goodness), social/financial support (we wouldn't thank goodness) and lots of healthcare - as yes, older retirees do, unfortunately- that would put huge pressure on services.

What do you mean by 'without being able to sell their house'?

Isn't the exchange rate already an issue for you though? If your income is in GBP and GBP is weak against EUR and CHF etc. then it makes sense to be in the UK I guess. Odile, are you planning to sell up in CH and move back to the UK? Surely would optimize your finances and use of income this way!

Our income is moderate, not high, but thankfully it is almost entirely in CHF, so we can just about get by living in CH since we're owner occupiers, no expensive rate to pay. Of course we shop both in-store and online in Germany to save money. We have even looked into moving into the border regions in G/F/A to see if we would be better off, but did not come to any firm conclusions.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	koblenz
	I have asked the OP which permit they have as I think anyone with a C-permit is not really going to be affected by Brexit with regard to their immigration status here.

That would be my expectation as well.