The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[Sbrinz]

My opinion is that most of the UK migrants are young, qualified, and pay more in taxes than they take out in health care and benefits, just like the "ex-pats" in Switzerland?

I agree there is a lot of pressure on schools and transport, but if the British don't want to pick fruit & vegetables then let someone else do it & add a benefit to the farmers.

Why did Angela Merkel welcome the refugees from Syria? She is with a right wing party, & I don't think she wanted to help them out of the mess they were in, I think she wanted them in the German nursing homes and factories.

[Medea Fleecestealer]

	Quote:	AbFab
	Everyone with a current UK passport will be carrying it with EU stars on it after the Brexit - for up to 10 years depending when it was issued...

There are no EU stars on a British passport. It does say European Union on it though.

	Quote:	Sbrinz
	if the British don't want to pick fruit & vegetables at a vastly reduced rate of pay, despite all the advances in workers' conditions struggled for and gained during the 19th and 20th centuries then let someone else do it & add a benefit to the farmers.

Fixed that for you.

[Sbrinz]

	Quote:
	Fixed that for you.

No need to fix something that is correct.

I stayed at a B&B in Suffolk on an apple farm. The owners told me they cannot get British workers.

Here, https://www.google.ch/maps/place/Bradfield+Combust,+Bury+Saint+Edmunds,+Suffolk,+UK/@52.1827655,0.7491504,14z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x47d852b1ed1ed28d:0xf0430 bbe50818ee1!8m2!3d52.182741!4d0.76666

Sometimes unemployed people are sent to them, but they turn up at 10 am and leave at lunchtime, never to return.
She said they were very happy with their Polish people, living in the caravan in the orchard.

You do realise that workers are paid the minimum UK wage don't you?

The minimum wage is to be raised soon for the over 25's (about 8% IIRC) and the farmers are concerned as the f...ing supermarkets are not prepared to pay a bit more for British products. The supermarkets say the market won't support a price increase, and the farmers say they cannot afford a wage increase.

But this problem will go away if Britain leaves the EU, and doesn't get the €4 billion subsidy. There just won't be any more farms.

	Quote:	Sbrinz
	No need to fix something that is correct. I stayed at a B&B in Suffolk on an apple farm. The owners told me they cannot get British workers. Here, https://www.google.ch/maps/place/Bradfield+Combust,+Bury+Saint+Edmunds,+Suffolk,+UK/@52.1827655,0.7491504,14z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0x47d852b1ed1ed28d:0xf0430 bbe50818ee1!8m2!3d52.182741!4d0.76666 Sometimes unemployed people are sent to them, but they turn up at 10 am and leave at lunchtime, never to return. She said they were very happy with their Polish people, living in the caravan in the orchard. You do realise that workers are paid the minimum UK wage don't you? The minimum wage is to be raised soon for the over 25's (about 8% IIRC) and the farmers are concerned as the f...ing supermarkets are not prepared to pay a bit more for British products. The supermarkets say the market won't support a price increase, and the farmers say they cannot afford a wage increase. But this problem will go away if Britain leaves the EU, and doesn't get the €4 billion subsidy. There just won't be any more farms.

This was maybe the case 20 years ago, but now we have the situation where
eastern Europeans are doing far more than just fruit picking.

For example, you fly into England, you go to the car hire desk and there's a good chance you'll be served by a girl from Lithuania. You go to a restaurant or cafe and your waitress will more likely than not be Estonian. Go to any building site and you'll find the vast majority of skilled labour there is Polish.

I've got nothing against these people and they work very hard and well. But it makes you wonder what the hell all the Brits are doing that used to do these types jobs? And if this carries on, where will the UK end up?

[greencelery]

Postal vote paper arrived today. Time to make your mind up (and not too late to register to vote).

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	Sbrinz
	But this problem will go away if Britain leaves the EU, and doesn't get the €4 billion subsidy. There just won't be any more farms.

So what will happen to the farms then, hopefully will the farmers give them to me for £1 as they clearly won't have any use for them.

[Sbrinz]

The New Zealanders will arrive here and put sheep on them. British farmers on TV said they would emigrate to eastern Europe!

But what will the farmers do when the EU subsidy disappears? At the moment they depend very heavily on it. Everyone seems to think Britain can just import food from the world market, where prices are lower, but if British farmers stop producing food, the slack in world supply will quickly be taken up, and Britain will be buying expensive food from the EU again.

G7 summit ongoing. Seven democratically elected leaders. Eh, hang on a minute, there's something not right in this picture...

[Sbrinz]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	For example, you fly into England, you go to the car hire desk and there's a good chance you'll be served by a girl from Lithuania. You go to a restaurant or café and your waitress will more likely than not be Estonian. Go to any building site and you'll find the vast majority of skilled labour there is Polish.

The British economy is working very well, and the unemployment rate is low. If the eastern Europeans don't take these lower paid jobs, who will do the work? The British people have obviously refused them, and found something better.

In the olden days (sixties) the cry was that Jamaicans are taking all the jobs. These people have moved on and today they might be in insurance or banking, or even head of Credit Suisse?

The port areas of Britain have always accepted emigrants for the past hundreds of years; things even out over the long term. The next emigration wave will probably come from Africa and the Middle East.

	Quote:	Sbrinz
	The British economy is working very well, and the unemployment rate is low. If the eastern Europeans don't take these lower paid jobs, who will do the work? The British people have obviously refused them, and found something better. In the olden days (sixties) the cry was that Jamaicans are taking all the jobs. These people have moved on and today they might be in insurance or banking, or even head of Credit Suisse? The port areas of Britain have always accepted emigrants for the past hundreds of years; things even out over the long term. The next emigration wave will probably come from Africa and the Middle East.

Unemployment statistics can easily be manipulated and have been done so by the current government. I don't say that eastern Europeans are taking all the jobs, but they are reducing the demand for workers that was previously there.

Ever since Labour came up with the idiotic target of sending 50% of the population to university, which has been embraced by the Tories, there has been a huge imbalance to the young people entering the job market. This hole is currently being filled by migrant workers.

	Quote:	Loz1983
	G7 summit ongoing. Seven democratically elected leaders. Eh, hang on a minute, there's something not right in this picture...

Yeah, there are 9 of them representing 8 institutions at the G7...

[lewton]

	Quote:	Sbrinz
	My opinion is that most of the UK migrants are young, qualified, and pay more in taxes than they take out in health care and benefits, just like the "ex-pats" in Switzerland?

Fully agree.

[lewton]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	This was maybe the case 20 years ago, but now we have the situation where eastern Europeans are doing far more than just fruit picking. For example, you fly into England, you go to the car hire desk and there's a good chance you'll be served by a girl from Lithuania. You go to a restaurant or cafe and your waitress will more likely than not be Estonian. Go to any building site and you'll find the vast majority of skilled labour there is Polish. I've got nothing against these people and they work very hard and well. But it makes you wonder what the hell all the Brits are doing that used to do these types jobs? And if this carries on, where will the UK end up?

FYI, Berlin is full of young non-student British people.
A good part of them work at start-ups (mostly) and bigger companies (I guess, I don't know anybody).
But another part that feels equally big (in absence of official numbers) work as waiters or don't work at all and claim the basic social security in order, for the privilige of living in "such a cool and exciting place" (seriously ) and being able to pursue "their art" or other creative things they think they are doing.

	Quote:	lewton
	FYI, Berlin is full of young non-student British people. A good part of them work at start-ups (mostly) and bigger companies (I guess, I don't know anybody). But another part that feels equally big (in absence of official numbers) work as waiters or don't work at all and claim the basic social security in order, for the privilige of living in "such a cool and exciting place" (seriously ) and being able to pursue "their art" or other creative things they think they are doing.

But Berlin is a capital city and is unique. You'll find a mix of people working in bars and cafes in capital cities across the world. Would you find the same mix working in rural Germany? Go to the Little Chef on the A14 at Kettering and you'll have Eliška serving you your Olympic breakfast.

[lewton]

Well, somebody asked why there are no locals left to do the jobs, so I said that many of them are leaving like artists in Berlin.

[hairybadger]

	Quote:	greencelery
	Postal vote paper arrived today. Time to make your mind up (and not too late to register to vote).

Well - I've just been wrong-footed by the overseas voter process.

I registered last year to make completely sure that I'd be registered in time, sent off a renewal form about a month ago (apparently you need to renew once a year, my registration was due to expire about a week before the referendum) and have just received an email from Enfield Council saying that I have to apply for a postal or proxy vote.

	Quote:
	Thank you for returning your Overseas Renewal form. We note that as of today’s date we still do not have an absent vote arrangement in place for you.

I made the schoolboy error of assuming that the voting card would just be sent to me.... I still have plenty of time to apply for a postal vote but I'm just a bit irritated that this subtlety of the electoral system escaped me.

[Pachyderm]

	Quote:	hairybadger
	Well - I've just been wrong-footed by the overseas voter process. I registered last year to make completely sure that I'd be registered in time, sent off a renewal form about a month ago (apparently you need to renew once a year, my registration was due to expire about a week before the referendum) and have just received an email from Enfield Council saying that I have to apply for a postal or proxy vote. I made the schoolboy error of assuming that the voting card would just be sent to me.... I still have plenty of time to apply for a postal vote but I'm just a bit irritated that this subtlety of the electoral system escaped me.

Me too -- I had a mail yesterday with the same message. I was annoyed that this wasn't made clear to me.

However, some good news is that you can sign the form, scan it and email it as an attachment. I did this this morning, and all is good again. They wanted it by Monday 30 to get me in the first tranche of postal votes sent out, so I should be OK.

I suggest you do the same.

[hairybadger]

	Quote:	Pachyderm
	Me too -- I had a mail yesterday with the same message. I was annoyed that this wasn't made clear to me. However, some good news is that you can sign the form, scan it and email it as an attachment. I did this this morning, and all is good again. They wanted it by Monday 30 to get me in the first tranche of postal votes sent out, so I should be OK. I suggest you do the same.

Thanks for that - that hadn't occurred to me. So - download form, print form, fill it in, scan it, email it back. Technically a bloody awful solution (could have been worse - could have been a Word document stage involved) Is what I'll be doing to gain a few days....

	Quote:	Loz1983
	G7 summit ongoing. Seven democratically elected leaders. Eh, hang on a minute, there's something not right in this picture..

Exactly. One of them is head of a majority government despite 62% of the voters not voting for him.

Actually iirc the voters actually got no direct say in him as leader of his country at all.