The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[marton]

	Quote:	Reb77Br
	Warning: this is not satire, it's real! From the Brexitballs Facebook page: "Man of the people Jacob Rees Mogg ponders his next move in the great people's revolution against the elites. Commenting on progress so far, Mogg returned to the favourite British metaphor of "cake" as a way of discussing how to conduct complex international finance and politics. “[The EU is a] fruitcake, of course.” “I like cake, I like eating it, I like having it and I like baking bigger cakes, which was Margaret Thatcher's great saying." "I think it's true - economically you want to bake a bigger cake rather than slicing up an existing cake differently.” “I don’t bake but nanny bakes and nanny is an exceptionally good cake maker. “She makes very good sponge cakes with generous quantities of icing both on top and in the middle, those are the ones that I like." Truly a man of the people." http://www.express.co.uk/news/politi...favourite-cake

fruitcake noun (PERSON)
​
slang a crazy person:
My teacher's a bit of a fruitcake.

Source

[marton]

Dutch nationals who take British citizenship to avoid having to leave the UK after Brexit will be stripped of their Netherlands passports due to existing limits on dual nationality, the Dutch prime minister has said.

About 100,000 Dutch nationals living in Britain face an uncertain future after March 2019. The UK and EU are yet to reconcile their differences on the citizens’ rights issue, with Brussels describing the British government’s initial offer as vague and inadequate.

Source

Saw that this morning.

I know we all like to beat Brexit and Brexiteers, but this is entirely due to the Netherlands not allowing dual nationality. The scenario would be exactly the same for anyone taking Swiss citizenship.

[McTAVGE]

	Quote:
	Saw that this morning. I know we all like to beat Brexit and Brexiteers, but this is entirely due to the Netherlands not allowing dual nationality. The scenario would be exactly the same for anyone taking Swiss citizenship.

Just to clarify: you mean if a Dutch citizen wanted to take Swiss citizenship, as the Swiss have bilateral agreements with many countries where you can keep a dual citizenship.


I am quite surprised at the Dutch Prime Minister strong stance on this and his reasons. As if by taking another citizenship you suddenly forgot all about your roots, family back home, friends... Quite severe for a reputedly open-minded and liberal country.

[marton]

	Quote:
	Saw that this morning. I know we all like to beat Brexit and Brexiteers, but this is entirely due to the Netherlands not allowing dual nationality. The scenario would be exactly the same for anyone taking Swiss citizenship.

No it is not "exactly the same"; Dutch people in Switzerland are not facing an uncertain future due to Switzerland cutting ties with the EU

[st2lemans]

	Quote:	marton
	No it is not "exactly the same"; Dutch people in Switzerland are not facing an uncertain future due to Switzerland cutting ties with the EU

Don't bet on it.

Tom

	Quote:	marton
	No it is not "exactly the same"; Dutch people in Switzerland are not facing an uncertain future due to Switzerland cutting ties with the EU

It's the same in as much as they would lose their Dutch citizenship, were they to do it.
As long as we don't know the offer (or rather the final position) of EU citizens in the UK, it's a bit reactionary to suggest Dutch people are doomed if they wish to stay...and I say this as a firm Remainer.

[marton]

	Quote:
	It's the same in as much as they would lose their Dutch citizenship, were they to do it. As long as we don't know the offer (or rather the final position) of EU citizens in the UK, it's a bit reactionary to suggest Dutch people are doomed if they wish to stay...and I say this as a firm Remainer.

How do you interpret "uncertain" to mean "doomed"

If I wanted to say "doomed" I would have

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	McTAVGE
	I am quite surprised at the Dutch Prime Minister strong stance on this and his reasons. As if by taking another citizenship you suddenly forgot all about your roots, family back home, friends... Quite severe for a reputedly open-minded and liberal country.

I'm rather surprised because of all the people I know who have dual South African / Dutch nationalities.

	Quote:	marton
	How do you interpret "uncertain" to mean "doomed" If I wanted to say "doomed" I would have

Ok, but it was still a bit sensationalist, but I guess

"Dutch citizens in foreign countries will lose their Dutch citizenship if they take another, and specifically ones in GB are unlikely to have, but might have, questionable residency status if they refuse British citizenship and therefore renounce their land of birth's citizenship"

is a bit less catchy than the doom-mongering headlines

	Quote:	Blueangel
	I'm rather surprised because of all the people I know who have dual South African / Dutch nationalities.

It is possible, but severely restricted:

Although Dutch law restricts dual citizenship, it is possible for Dutch subjects to legally hold dual citizenship in a number of circumstances, including:

• those who acquire another citizenship at the time of birth (for example, a child born to Dutch parents in the United States would hold both US and Dutch citizenship).
• persons who acquire Dutch citizenship through the option procedure (including former Dutch citizens resuming citizenship)
• persons who become naturalised Dutch subjects if they obtain an exemption from the requirement to renounce their foreign citizenship, such as those who are married to Dutch subjects.
• Dutch subjects who naturalise in another country who are exempted from the loss of nationality rule, such as those married to a citizen or subject of that country.

It's possible as a former Dutch colony that people from SA have some exemptions, like people from Suriname, etc.

[marton]

Since 1 April 2003, following an amendment to the Netherlands Nationality Act of 1985, Dutch subjects with dual nationality will lose their Dutch citizenship if they hold a foreign citizenship and reside outside the Kingdom of the Netherlands or the European Union for ten years.

Posted this on another thread but it's relevant here. EU tariffs help keep Africa poor. I also reckon this will be another reason why the prediction of "spiraling food prices" will fail to materialise post Brexit. There's a reason food prices in the EU are on average 10% higher than in the rest of the world.

The EU is making poor countries poorer

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Posted this on another thread but it's relevant here. EU tariffs help keep Africa poor. I also reckon this will be another reason why the prediction of "spiraling food prices" will fail to materialise post Brexit.

I saw the other post where you had this link, and I get where you're coming from on this. However, the spiralling UK food prices has been happening for the last 12mths already, and is set to continue.

Africa is such an incredibly diverse continent, with immense wealth and equal poverty side by side, and dictatorships that prevent the distribution of wealth. You cannot blame the EU for that. Whilst in the UK, a large percentage of the work I did was for business clients going to Angola, Mozambique, Tanzania, S.A. and Ghana. I regularly spoke to expats in Angola who never wanted to return to the UK, and I was always told that Africa's problems are best solved by Africa.

	Quote:	Blueangel
	I saw the other post where you had this link, and I get where you're coming from on this. However, the spiralling UK food prices has been happening for the last 12mths already, and is set to continue.

The rising food prices have been caused by inflation and the drop in the value of the pound. Figures out today appear to show that inflation has now peaked and the pound has stabilised. I expect if this remains the case then food prices will stabilise too until the UK leaves the EU. Once the UK leaves then it will be able to reduce tariffs and therefore the costs of imported food.

Europe's Unsustainable Welfare State

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	The rising food prices have been caused by inflation and the drop in the value of the pound. Figures out today appear to show that inflation has now peaked and the pound has stabilised. I expect if this remains the case then food prices will stabilise too until the UK leaves the EU. Once the UK leaves then it will be able to reduce tariffs and therefore the costs of imported food.

Cloud cook land, but given your posted links not surprising!!! About 54% of UK food is local and about 27% is imported from the EU, so reducing tariffs will have little real impact on the cost of living for most people.

It is more likely that UK will either have to introduce additional tariffs to protect UK farming or alternatively provide additional subsidies to framers, at the taxpayers expense.

[rainer_d]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	Cloud cook land, but given your posted links not surprising!!! About 54% of UK food is local and about 27% is imported from the EU, so reducing tariffs will have little real impact on the cost of living for most people. It is more likely that UK will either have to introduce additional tariffs to protect UK farming or alternatively provide additional subsidies to framers, at the taxpayers expense.

How much of the animal-feed is imported?


AFAIK, this is a quite substantial amount in Switzerland.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	rainer_d
	How much of the animal-feed is imported?

A good point. Here is what I can find.

	Quote:	Jim2007
	Cloud cook land, but given your posted links not surprising!!! About 54% of UK food is local and about 27% is imported from the EU, so reducing tariffs will have little real impact on the cost of living for most people. It is more likely that UK will either have to introduce additional tariffs to protect UK farming or alternatively provide additional subsidies to framers, at the taxpayers expense.

OK Einstein, why do you think 27% of food is currently imported from the EU? Could it possibly be that the lack of tariffs have an influence? And the high tariffs imposed on imports from outside the EU?

After Brexit, the UK will be able to set its own tariffs and therefore won't be so reliant on EU imports.