The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[marton]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	New figures show Britain £500bn poorer than thought At the rate things are going the banking crisis will be a foot note in the history books for this period. It is simply beyond believe that we have got to this situation...

Incredible, how could they be so wrong?

Another worrying point from the same link

	Quote:
	foreign direct investment into Britain has collapsed, plummeting from a net £120bn in the first half of last year to a net outflow of £25bn this year

[rainer_d]

This is really sad.

I'm sorry for all the people who will lose their jobs.

There's not much one can do at this point, I'm afraid.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	marton
	Incredible, how could they be so wrong?

I don't it is heard to imagine, then again earlier in the year we hat the issue with the immigration figures, so perhaps there is some kind of general flaw - people not being as rigorous as they should be, weak collection or analysis methods etc... questions definitely need to be asked, it certainly is not the time to start discovering your planning tools are no up to it.

[Sbrinz]

Sadly there are still some "leaders" going about saying no deal is better than a bad deal. These people are absolute traitors!

The story of the Pied Piper has similarities to Brexit, doesn't it? (Following a fool and losing everything dear to you?)

If every UK citizen wrote to his/her MP about their concerns, maybe there could still be a sensible outcome?

[marton]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	I don't it is heard to imagine, then again earlier in the year we hat the issue with the immigration figures, so perhaps there is some kind of general flaw - people not being as rigorous as they should be, weak collection or analysis methods etc... questions definitely need to be asked, it certainly is not the time to start discovering your planning tools are no up to it.

One time I was the business planning manager for a largish UK company where I needed to use UK Govt. statistics. I discovered some of them were plain wrong and eventually met up with a senior Civil Servant who told me they could not change the numbers because it would cause a loss of confidence in the figures

For my online shop I have to use a "payment gateway" to handle credit card payments.
The lowest cost providers are US companies who all handle their European business via UK based companies; I wonder if this can continue after Brexit as they need various permissions and/or licences to offer their services in EU countries.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	marton
	I wonder if this can continue after Brexit as they need various permissions and/or licences to offer their services in EU countries.

Ah even in the worst case I'd expect those kind of company would be able to quickly move to Ireland and be up and running - same language, more or less same legal and tax systems etc... And even after BREXIT there will be no work permit issues for U.K. citizens, at least that is what I read.

[marton]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	UK farmers will 'grow more food' if no Brexit deal - minister This whole article seems to be based on the assumption that the UK would impose tariffs on food imports, thus increasing consumer prices, but why? Why would the punish themselves????

Farming leaders have accused Chris Grayling of “talking tripe” after he argued in a television interview that the UK could just grow more food to keep prices down if Britain crashes out of the EU.

	Quote:
	“We haven’t had a UK food policy for 43 years,” the national food and environmental policy has been led by the EU since the UK joined the European Economic Community in 1973.

Source

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	marton
	Farming leaders have accused Chris Grayling of “talking tripe” after he argued in a television interview that the UK could just grow more food to keep prices down if Britain crashes out of the EU.

Well ya there is a high degree of simplicity there.... I don't know much about UK farming, but I can see a few issues...

I geather cost of land is an issue due to non farmers entering the market to collect subsidies and while we should see prices drop it has an knock on effect: farmers with high borrowings will be impacted, as will farmers seeking to raise capital...

Then there is the lack of cheap labor... so many processes will need to be automated, so investment will be needed.

And on the consumer side, will people be willing to pay more, accept a more seasonal offering and probably less variety? Or will the government be forced to allow cheap imports and see it all wiped out?

And of course there is the fact that all across Europe large parts are uneconomic and we've been paying farmers for 'upkeep of the country side' rather than anything else and that includes Switzerland!

[Castro]

The sheer gall of these people is breathtaking, WTF did they expect???

Brexit is turning into a disaster, says Vote Leave chief

The so-called brains behind Brexit who called Brexit Secretary David Davis “thick as mince” has taken a new stab at the Government for its alleged failings in leaving the EU.

Dominic Cummings told Prospect that Theresa May and Mr Davis "have provided a case study of grotesque uselessness" in the way they are dealing with the Brexit process.

The mastermind behind Vote Leave added that negotiations were in a "dire state" and the UK is close to messing up the talks completely.

Mr Cummings, who recently deleted his Twitter account, also said it was "crazy" of Ms May to trigger Article 50 in March without preparing - before or after.

"If there’s no deal, there will be significant problems that were completely avoidable," he told the publication.

Mr Cummings, the former special advisor to Michael Gove, predicted there would be an "inevitable inquiry" into why Brexit occurred, and said that "schoolchildren will shake their heads in disbelief that such characters could have had leading roles in government".

In the six months after triggering Article 50, negotiations have stalled, despite Ms May’s key Florence speech to get talks moving again.

Senior ministers have also said the "no deal" scenario is still possible, carrying on Ms May’s rhetoric of "no deal is better than a bad deal".

Mr Cumming’s gloomy outlook also comes shortly after US President Donald Trump slapped 300 per cent tariffs on Irish-Canadian Bombardier planes, attempting to eliminate competition for US-based Boeing. The controversy has, according to some analysts, given the UK a hint of the nature of post-Brexit trade deals.

The former Vote Leave chief has never minced his words, however. He also called Mr Davis "lazy as a toad" and declared that the Government decision to leave the European Atomic Energy Community was made by "morons" who were "near-retarded on every dimension".

Prospect readers did not all appear convinced that Mr Cummings was right to criticise.

"This display of rare political courage should not go unrewarded; surely the PM must find him a seat in the Cabinet where he can lead the other failures and enjoy the fruits of the inevitable outcome […] He deserves no less!" quipped one reader.

He was also accused of hypocrisy by Prospect readers when he accused Government of having no plans for the future.

In an essay for the Spectator, Mr Cummings – a man David Cameron once described as a "career psychopath" – said Brexiteers won the referendum by talking about immigration and the promise of £350 million per week for the NHS.

"Would we have won by spending our time talking about trade and the Single Market? No way," he wrote.

Source

[marton]

	Quote:	Castro
	The sheer gall of these people is breathtaking, WTF did they expect??? Brexit is turning into a disaster, says Vote Leave chief The so-called brains behind Brexit who called Brexit Secretary David Davis “thick as mince” has taken a new stab at the Government for its alleged failings in leaving the EU. Dominic Cummings told Prospect that Theresa May and Mr Davis "have provided a case study of grotesque uselessness" in the way they are dealing with the Brexit process. The mastermind behind Vote Leave added that negotiations were in a "dire state" and the UK is close to messing up the talks completely. Mr Cummings, who recently deleted his Twitter account, also said it was "crazy" of Ms May to trigger Article 50 in March without preparing - before or after. "If there’s no deal, there will be significant problems that were completely avoidable," he told the publication. Mr Cummings, the former special advisor to Michael Gove, predicted there would be an "inevitable inquiry" into why Brexit occurred, and said that "schoolchildren will shake their heads in disbelief that such characters could have had leading roles in government". In the six months after triggering Article 50, negotiations have stalled, despite Ms May’s key Florence speech to get talks moving again. Senior ministers have also said the "no deal" scenario is still possible, carrying on Ms May’s rhetoric of "no deal is better than a bad deal". Mr Cumming’s gloomy outlook also comes shortly after US President Donald Trump slapped 300 per cent tariffs on Irish-Canadian Bombardier planes, attempting to eliminate competition for US-based Boeing. The controversy has, according to some analysts, given the UK a hint of the nature of post-Brexit trade deals. The former Vote Leave chief has never minced his words, however. He also called Mr Davis "lazy as a toad" and declared that the Government decision to leave the European Atomic Energy Community was made by "morons" who were "near-retarded on every dimension". Prospect readers did not all appear convinced that Mr Cummings was right to criticise. "This display of rare political courage should not go unrewarded; surely the PM must find him a seat in the Cabinet where he can lead the other failures and enjoy the fruits of the inevitable outcome […] He deserves no less!" quipped one reader. He was also accused of hypocrisy by Prospect readers when he accused Government of having no plans for the future. In an essay for the Spectator, Mr Cummings – a man David Cameron once described as a "career psychopath" – said Brexiteers won the referendum by talking about immigration and the promise of £350 million per week for the NHS. "Would we have won by spending our time talking about trade and the Single Market? No way," he wrote. Source

In an essay for the Spectator, Mr Cummings (Vote Leave chief) said Brexiteers won the referendum by talking about immigration and the promise of £350 million per week for the NHS.

Please stand up those EFers who claimed the success of the vote was nothing to do with "immigration and the promise of £350 million per week for the NHS."

[StirB]

NOBODY will ever admit this is what swayed them. T-5, 4, 3, 2.... some impressive pivoting will be coming up.

[Dougal's Breakfast]

	Quote:	StirB
	NOBODY will ever admit this is what swayed them. T-5, 4, 3, 2.... some impressive pivoting will be coming up.

I've been clear on my reasons for voting Leave right from the moment I made that choice.

No pivoting here.

[Sandgrounder]

	Quote:	Dougal's Breakfast
	I've been clear on my reasons for voting Leave right from the moment I made that choice. No pivoting here.

To be fair, it's clear that lots of people did their homework and voted leave for reasons they based on reading extensive material about the EU, and its nuts and bolts BUT the leave campaign didn't contain much of this, preferring instead to beam the spotlight on the money for the NHS and the immigration situation because it pushed the right buttons with the voting public.

Having been back and forth to the UK before and after the referendum I heard a lot more "there's just too many [insert nationality] here - we need to take control so we can keep them out" or "All that money we save from the EU can be poured into the NHS" or "At least we'll be able to buy a vacuum cleaner that sucks / lightbulbs which don't take forever to brighten up!"

Only once did I hear from a guy who had delved into the actual administration, cheques and balances, as well as the structure of the EU. He came up with a lot of impressive 'fair enough' type balanced reasoning for voting leave.

Now he's moved to Montpelier...

The tragedy is that people shouldn't have basically had to turn detective ploughing through reams and reams of information, internet links and other roundabout ways to get to the nitty gritty of what leaving the EU means in reality, it's likely costs and the realistic time frame. All of that information should have been included in the campaigns. Maybe broken down into bite-size paragraphs and bullet points but not much of that was made available nor even publicised.

	Quote:	marton
	Please stand up those EFers who claimed the success of the vote was nothing to do with "immigration and the promise of £350 million per week for the NHS."

No one has ever claimed this.

[Dougal's Breakfast]

	Quote:	Sandgrounder
	To be fair, it's clear that lots of people did their homework and voted leave for reasons they based on reading extensive material about the EU, and its nuts and bolts BUT the leave campaign didn't contain much of this, preferring instead to beam the spotlight on the money for the NHS and the immigration situation because it pushed the right buttons with the voting public.

I hate to quote Stalin, but...

[StirB]

	Quote:	Dougal's Breakfast
	I hate to quote Stalin, but...

Leaving one customs union is a tragedy. Leaving tens is a statistic?

[Dougal's Breakfast]

	Quote:	StirB
	Leaving one customs union is a tragedy. Leaving tens is a statistic?

Sometimes the right thing to do has nothing to do with balance sheets. The American revolutionaries were taking quite a risk turning their backs on the British Empire, but they did it because it was the right thing to do.

I feel the same about the United Kingdom leaving the EU. I understand that many people disagree with me, but I couldn't - in good conscience - vote in favour of something I believe to be wrong.

What motivated other people is their business. Maybe some people were swayed by a slogan on a bus. There's one born every minute. But in the end, we got the result which I believe to be the right one.

[amogles]

	Quote:	Dougal's Breakfast
	Sometimes the right thing to do has nothing to do with balance sheets. The American revolutionaries were taking quite a risk turning their backs on the British Empire, but they did it because it was the right thing to do. I feel the same about the United Kingdom leaving the EU. I understand that many people disagree with me, but I couldn't - in good conscience - vote in favour of something I believe to be wrong. What motivated other people is their business. Maybe some people were swayed by a slogan on a bus. There's one born every minute. But in the end, we got the result which I believe to be the right one.

If people shouldn't be swayed by slogans on buses, then maybe it's time to ban advertising on buses.

[Sandgrounder]

	Quote:	amogles
	If people shouldn't be swayed by slogans on buses, then maybe it's time to ban advertising on buses.

Campaigning for votes isn't really advertising, though, is it?

To be fair, Specsavers has more chance of correcting myopia than the government has got injecting 350 mil into the NHS, hasn't it?

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	Dougal's Breakfast
	Sometimes the right thing to do has nothing to do with balance sheets. The American revolutionaries were taking quite a risk turning their backs on the British Empire, but they did it because it was the right thing to do.

Trade, taxes, the little matter of a tea party - the balance sheet was very much front and center as a catalyst!

	Quote:
	I feel the same about the United Kingdom leaving the EU. I understand that many people disagree with me, but I couldn't - in good conscience - vote in favour of something I believe to be wrong.

But what exactly are you expecting to achieve?