The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[marton]

	Quote:	Chuff
	Does Oldie debate in any other way? Par the course in any thread of this nature where she suddenly turns into an instant-activist. Just add water.

Water

What's that?

[pdofr]

	Quote:
	More and more are realising some people were pulling all the strings: http://www.globalresearch.ca/how-bre...it/5614194/amp

From 2014, Why Nigel Farage is attracting ultra-wealthy Ukip backers

Paul Sykes gets a mention there, which reminds me of a former boss of mine who was trying to get into Sykes' good books by working on his anti-EU campaign back in the mid-nineties. I suspected he was brown-nosing, because he'd never shown any interest whatsoever in politics before that.

Money talks, and in this case, big money talks louder.

(That former boss's offshore company surfaced in the Panama Papers leak. I had hoped never to hear of it, or him, again. )

[marton]

Boris Johnson is facing questions about the government’s links to key individuals named by the FBI in its Trump-Russia investigation, following the emergence of a photo of him with Joseph Mifsud, the “London professor” with high-level Kremlin contacts.

This development comes less than a week after Johnson denied meeting the professor, and at a time when concern is growing about possible Russian interference in the Brexit campaign, in which the foreign secretary played a crucial role.

Joseph Mifsud, is the “London professor” with high-level Kremlin contacts who is claimed to have recruited Trump campaign aide Papadopoulos.

Source

I keep writing "you could not make this stuff up" so often it is now getting boring, how else could I formulate my comment??

It is clear the Russians helped Trump get his razor thin majority and also the razor thin majority for Brexit; wonder what price the Russians are demanding??

From Twitter:

Sometimes the BBC news app shows the wrong pictures for the story when it has no data/WiFi.
Today it surpassed itself.


Anyone else see Peppa Pig as Picasso's crying woman?

[FrankZappa]

	Quote:	marton
	It is clear the Russians helped Trump get his razor thin majority and also the razor thin majority for Brexit; wonder what price the Russians are demanding??

Surely the resulting chaos is ample compensation?

[pdofr]

	Quote:	marton
	It is clear the Russians helped Trump get his razor thin majority and also the razor thin majority for Brexit; wonder what price the Russians are demanding??

	Quote:	FrankZappa
	Surely the resulting chaos is ample compensation?

If nothing else, Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt have been sowed.

[marton]

Up to 40 Tory MPs now ready to sign letter of no confidence in Theresa May!
Source

It is hard to see how the UK Govt. can achieve anything positive while it is so weak and faced with conflicting demands from within its own party.

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Financial Settlement is the UK's trump card and won't be played until further down the line.

	Quote:	Jim2007
	This is the biggest misunderstanding in the U.K.! It is not about the figure, which in reality is easily plugged. It is about the principle and establishing the precedent for any future exits.

You were saying?

The Brexit Cost Dilemma

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	marton
	Up to 40 Tory MPs now ready to sign letter of no confidence in Theresa May! Source

I've been back in the UK for 6 days now, and all I've heard from friends is who's being made redundant at the end of November, how government funding cuts are crippling their work place and ability to provide sufficient care for employees under increasing pressure (police), and whose work hours are being cut. And that's before I've even seen any of my friends who work in the NHS and education.

Prices in Tesco and ASDA have shot up since my last extended visit in Feb. I'm looking at prices and thinking "That's the same as I pay in CHF in Migros!" Being a total geek about these things, I spoke to my OH last night, and checked items on my receipts from both supermarkets with his receipt for Migros. It was startling.

Had a long talk with a non-political close friend the other night, and even she's saying this government have to go. Financially, she's safe and sound...mortgage paid off, on a very good pension and raking it in as a consultant on a daily rate...but it's what she's seeing around her that has brought home numerous issues with this government's policies.

I've just come off the phone with a local charity about collecting white goods, etc, from my house. I was told that they're crying out for goods to be donated because people are hanging on to things a lot longer lately, and their stocks are drying up.

It feels like people are battening down the hatches in preparation for the storm to come. No like. Want to come home (to CH)

[marton]

Concern about Russian influence in British politics has intensified as it emerged that more than 400 fake Twitter accounts believed to be run from St Petersburg published posts about Brexit.

Researchers at the University of Edinburgh identified 419 accounts operating from the Russian Internet Research Agency (IRA) attempting to influence UK politics out of 2,752 accounts suspended by Twitter in the US.

Source

From the same newspaper

	Quote:
	Russia’s defence ministry has tried to pass off what appear to be stills from a mobile phone military simulation game as “irrefutable evidence” of cooperation between US forces and Islamic State militants in Syria. Conflict Intelligence Team, a group of Russian online investigators who factcheck claims by the Russian military, said that the other four of the five photographs appear to be taken from 2016 footage released by Iraq’s ministry of defence, depicting the Iraqi air force bombing Isis targets near Falluja.

Source

	Quote:	marton
	Concern about Russian influence in British politics has intensified as it emerged that more than 400 fake Twitter accounts believed to be run from St Petersburg published posts about Brexit. Researchers at the University of Edinburgh identified 419 accounts operating from the Russian Internet Research Agency (IRA) attempting to influence UK politics out of 2,752 accounts suspended by Twitter in the US. Source From the same newspaper Source

Isn't this whole Russia thing getting a bit tired now? The same goes for influence in the US election. Rather than trying to understand the reasons behind Brexit and Trump, let's bury our head in the sand, call them racist and thick and blame Russia.

[greenmount]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Rather than trying to understand the reasons behind Brexit and Trump, let's bury our head in the sand, call them racist and thick and blame Russia.

Indeed. But same can be said about Russian propaganda - why try to diminish its importance or bury our head in sand aka ignore its role, instead of understanding how it works and to which purposes?

Only a few still doubt its effects or the unorthodox liasions between certain parties and Russia.
I'm wondering if people are still reading newspapers like The Economist or their only source of entertainment is DM, The Telegraph, etc etc.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Isn't this whole Russia thing getting a bit tired now?

Yes it's tired, but it isn't resolved, and it'll stay being tired until it's resolved.

This is fantastic. So much for the Russian propaganda machine:

‘I’m not a Russian troll - I’m a security guard from Glasgow’

Author James Patrick suggested the @Didgery77332 account could be a Russian troll due to its “horrific use of English” and “pro-Russian posture”. He queried whether any real Scot would have used the word “wot” in tweets instead of “wae” or “wi”, He added: “In almost a year of daily interaction with Scottish Twitter users, I can hand on heart say I’d never seen one of them use “Wot”.”

“It’s not difficult to track me down. People might not agree with my opinions, but that doesn’t make me a Russian troll. I work 12 hour shifts, often standing at a gate for hours on end – posting on Twitter helps pass the time.”

So just a Scottish troll with a Russian agenda?

[Urs Max]

	Quote:
	This is fantastic. So much for the Russian propaganda machine:

So one false suspicion, by a civilian no less, invalidates the whole Russia affair?

[Blueangel]

And on it goes... I take GCHQ's word for it over Loz. Sorry lad, but they're sticking their fingers in pies that don't belong to them.

	Quote:
	Russia has attempted to attack the UK's media, telecommunications and energy sectors, an intelligence chief has said. Ciaran Martin, the chief executive of the National Cyber Security Centre, a part of GCHQ, said the UK is facing "two significant groups of threats in cyberspace": hostile states and rampant criminality.

https://news.sky.com/story/russian-h...ector-11127641

[marton]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Isn't this whole Russia thing getting a bit tired now? The same goes for influence in the US election. Rather than trying to understand the reasons behind Brexit and Trump, let's bury our head in the sand, call them racist and thick and blame Russia.

Who is "them"? "Brexit and Trump"? Brexit is not a person

[3Wishes]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	...“It’s not difficult to track me down. People might not agree with my opinions, but that doesn’t make me a Russian troll. I work 12 hour shifts, often standing at a gate for hours on end – posting on Twitter helps pass the time.”

Oh, good to know he's focusing on Twitter instead of keeping watch (aka doing his job).

	Quote:	Urs Max
	So one false suspicion, by a civilian no less, invalidates the whole Russia affair?

No, but it does highlight the hysterical nature of the accusations. Have Russia been trying to be influence western elections? Yes. Have they had an impact on the results? Probably not.

	Quote:	Blueangel
	And on it goes... I take GCHQ's word for it over Loz. Sorry lad, but they're sticking their fingers in pies that don't belong to them. https://news.sky.com/story/russian-h...ector-11127641

Russia must have hacked my pencil!

	Quote:	3Wishes
	Oh, good to know he's focusing on Twitter instead of keeping watch (aka doing his job).

I guess you must never have come across a security guard.