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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #10481  
Old 07.12.2017, 15:03
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Oh, it gets better:

https://twitter.com/MartinSchulz/sta...48811375271936
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  #10482  
Old 07.12.2017, 15:08
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

And then the AfD takes over the whole thing. How german is that?
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  #10483  
Old 07.12.2017, 15:27
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

I wonder whether the people who fear a united states of Europe admire the United States of America. It would be ironic if they did!
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  #10484  
Old 07.12.2017, 15:30
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I wonder whether the people who fear a united states of Europe admire the United States of America. It would be ironic if they did!
I think it's the "join us, or else..." part that people fear. Didn't work out so well last time out.
  #10485  
Old 07.12.2017, 15:31
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The referendum was quite clear in a few respects. The most common one was that people wanted closed borders. Whatever deal could be made with the EU would always include open borders and freedom of movement. So even if May gets a deal she has gone against the public vote. This is a no win situation - the only question is how badly we lose.
Before I get roasted - I voted remain and I don't think May is worth her weight in horsepoo!
You're being selective. £350mln a week was another major selling point, as it turned out a blatant lie.

But yes, there's no good solution for this mess. Rational people re-think.
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  #10486  
Old 07.12.2017, 15:36
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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And then the AfD takes over the whole thing. How german is that?
Methinks Schultz is doing his best to appear more incompetent than he actually is so he doesn't have to go into government with Merkel.

So either the SPD has to smell the music and fire him asap, or there is going to be more misery of failing to get a coalition, a new election with incertain outcome - in which I expect SPD will lose further ground as SPD voters want an SPD that wants to govern, not one that throws toys out the pram.

Post Brexit Britain is going to start looking good in comparison.
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  #10487  
Old 07.12.2017, 16:08
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I wonder whether the people who fear a united states of Europe admire the United States of America. It would be ironic if they did!
Don't think it's particularly got anything to do with fear of a USE. The fact is that when a territory votes to join the USA they already know it's the USA. It became what it is through land purchase and conquests.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territ..._United_States

Meanwhile the EU is a collection of long standing independent sovereign nations who've come together for certain mutual purposes/aims. Totally different scenarios. They're used to being in charge of their own destinies and yes, some won't like the idea of more integration into one, big USE. That isn't what they signed on for. It's not what the UK signed on for. Which is why we're leaving.
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  #10488  
Old 07.12.2017, 16:22
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Which is why we're leaving.
This Brexit departure is more redundant than a Swiss goodbye. Maybe you could leave them a song for remembrance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-l5FyA3pgo
  #10489  
Old 07.12.2017, 16:23
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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I wonder whether the people who fear a united states of Europe admire the United States of America. It would be ironic if they did!
Why ironic?

If we were getting a US-style constitution with all of the first 10 amendments, I'd be all for it.

But if that is what Verhoffstad and Merkel are genuinely proposing, they're not exactly making a good job of saying so.
  #10490  
Old 07.12.2017, 17:45
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Great - then it would have been Brexit simplified! But he would stand even less chance of that had we stayed in. Only within the EU do we have a voice in what happens. I think you should remember what Farage based the Brexit campaign on and look at the areas which voted leave. The campaign was all about immigration and the £350 million a week that we'll never see. The areas that voted leave are mainly low income low employment areas that got more from EU funding than they will from central govermnent. It goes to show how much they understand about the long term benefits. I really don't think most people had a clue - and certainly not about what was said last week in a referendum which took place last year!
  #10491  
Old 07.12.2017, 17:53
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Meanwhile the EU is a collection of long standing independent sovereign nations who've come together for certain mutual purposes/aims. Totally different scenarios. They're used to being in charge of their own destinies and yes, some won't like the idea of more integration into one, big USE. That isn't what they signed on for. It's not what the UK signed on for. Which is why we're leaving.
18 of the current members joined after the 1983 commitment to an "ever closer union" so they knowingly joined the EU with that as its objective. Of the remaining 10, most (apart from the UK naturally) count amongst the strongest drivers for a close union.
  #10492  
Old 07.12.2017, 17:56
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

What they failed to say is that you can check out anytime you'd like, but you can never leave.
  #10493  
Old 07.12.2017, 17:56
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Why ironic?

If we were getting a US-style constitution with all of the first 10 amendments, I'd be all for it.

But if that is what Verhoffstad and Merkel are genuinely proposing, they're not exactly making a good job of saying so.
Never, ever with the 2nd. We can see what that leads to.

The European Convention on Human Rights (compulsory for all EU members) largely covers the rest and rather better imho.
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  #10494  
Old 07.12.2017, 17:57
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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What they failed to say is that you can check out anytime you'd like, but you can never leave.
So the UK is not leaving? Not the EUs fault they are so incompetent at doing it.
  #10495  
Old 07.12.2017, 18:09
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Don't think it's particularly got anything to do with fear of a USE. The fact is that when a territory votes to join the USA they already know it's the USA. It became what it is through land purchase and conquests.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territ..._United_States

Meanwhile the EU is a collection of long standing independent sovereign nations who've come together for certain mutual purposes/aims. Totally different scenarios. They're used to being in charge of their own destinies and yes, some won't like the idea of more integration into one, big USE. That isn't what they signed on for. It's not what the UK signed on for. Which is why we're leaving.
"long standing independent sovereign nations "? Depends how you define long standing!
Read up on the Austro-Hungarian Empire or look at the countries occupied by the Nazi's (Austria, Czechoslovakia, Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, France, Denmark, Yugoslavia, Greece, Norway and Western Poland.) or check on the Soviet Union which only demised 26 years ago.
  #10496  
Old 07.12.2017, 18:19
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Never, ever with the 2nd. We can see what that leads to.

The European Convention on Human Rights (compulsory for all EU members) largely covers the rest and rather better imho.
But does it though?

What about freedom of speech, right to trial by jury, state's rights, etc etc, which are all far more compromised in Europe than in the USA.
  #10497  
Old 07.12.2017, 18:44
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But does it though?

What about freedom of speech, right to trial by jury, state's rights, etc etc, which are all far more compromised in Europe than in the USA.
Sadly nothing to write home about in the USA; less than 4% of US trials are by jury

Not sure what you mean by State's rights? The EU States are sovereign countries which empowers them more than the US States?
  #10498  
Old 07.12.2017, 18:45
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Don't forget the important American Right for companies to be treated like people, that's a good one.
  #10499  
Old 07.12.2017, 18:53
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Sadly nothing to write home about in the USA; less than 4% of US trials are by jury

Not sure what you mean by State's rights? The EU States are sovereign countries which empowers them more than the US States?
The European States have to go along with new legislation produced by the EU. Including changes to the nature and objectives of the union such as going from being a trading club to an ever clsoer political union.

In the US, the 10th Amendment guarantees (with certain complicated exceptions resulting from conflict with other constitutional provisons) that any rights and priviledges not specifically given to the Federal Govt by the Constitution itself are not vested with the Federal Govt but held by the individual states. The system may be broken in places but in theory it prevents a creeping centralisation of power.

If we had had that in the very fisrt EU treaty, we would still be a happy club of trading nations.
  #10500  
Old 07.12.2017, 18:56
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Don't forget the important American Right for companies to be treated like people, that's a good one.
and that's in the constitution, is it?
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