The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[Medea Fleecestealer]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	If you had been in Poundland recently, you'd be aware of this... http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bu...-a8019496.html

Poundland may have more than choccy bars to worry about.

"Poundland owner Steinhoff International has seen its shares fall by up to 66% after it said it would launch a probe into accounting irregularities.

It came as chief executive Markus Jooste resigned and the South African group postponed its full-year results.

Steinhoff has asked accountancy giant PwC to conduct an independent investigation.

Shares in the company, listed in South Africa and Germany, recovered slightly to stand about 52% down.

Steinhoff owns 40 local brands in more than 30 countries. As well as furniture and homeware, it also sells products including clothing, footwear and consumer goods.

Its brands include Bensons for Beds and Harveys in the UK, Conforama in Europe, Pep and Ackermans in South Africa and Snooze in Australia. Steinhoff derives about 60% of its earnings in Europe and 34% in Africa."

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-42249163

[pdofr]

	Quote:	Urs Max
	"No deal" would cost much much more. Those €50bln are "only" 3% of UK's GDP, even if amortised over only ten years that's just 0.3% annually (it can be argued that is is vastly overstated, but let's leave it at that).

To put that €50bn into perspective, the proposed HS2 (High Speed Train link) is going to cost between BBC report: £42.6bn and Yorkshire Post article: £56bn. Given the opposition to it and the general history of price overruns on UK government projects, no doubt that figure will escalate.

	Quote:	Urs Max
	The uncertainty alone will cause more damage, it already shows. The EU doesn't even need to act, its revenge is intrinsic to Brexit. Now imagine the consequences if the EU refuses to close any kind of contracts for a long time - after all the UK will just have proven that it doesn't honor contracts so there's no use in closing new ones.

As you say, the EU doesn't need to do anything except watch...

[MadDad]

The referendum was quite clear in a few respects. The most common one was that people wanted closed borders. Whatever deal could be made with the EU would always include open borders and freedom of movement. So even if May gets a deal she has gone against the public vote. This is a no win situation - the only question is how badly we lose.
Before I get roasted - I voted remain and I don't think May is worth her weight in horsepoo!

Despite the difficult week and the incompetent government that's likely going to screw this up, let's remind ourselves again why Brexit happened. And why, despite everything else, it was the correct decision.

German SPD leader Martin Schulz seeks 'United States of Europe' by 2025
https://twitter.com/MartinSchulz/sta...48359720013824

The good news for the EU is that Schulz can't even win an election in his own country.

Oh, it gets better:

https://twitter.com/MartinSchulz/sta...48811375271936

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Oh, it gets better: https://twitter.com/MartinSchulz/sta...48811375271936

And then the AfD takes over the whole thing. How german is that?

[Reb77Br]

I wonder whether the people who fear a united states of Europe admire the United States of America. It would be ironic if they did!

	Quote:	Reb77Br
	I wonder whether the people who fear a united states of Europe admire the United States of America. It would be ironic if they did!

I think it's the "join us, or else..." part that people fear. Didn't work out so well last time out.

[Urs Max]

	Quote:
	The referendum was quite clear in a few respects. The most common one was that people wanted closed borders. Whatever deal could be made with the EU would always include open borders and freedom of movement. So even if May gets a deal she has gone against the public vote. This is a no win situation - the only question is how badly we lose. Before I get roasted - I voted remain and I don't think May is worth her weight in horsepoo!

You're being selective. £350mln a week was another major selling point, as it turned out a blatant lie.

But yes, there's no good solution for this mess. Rational people re-think.

[amogles]

	Quote:	Phos
	And then the AfD takes over the whole thing. How german is that?

Methinks Schultz is doing his best to appear more incompetent than he actually is so he doesn't have to go into government with Merkel.

So either the SPD has to smell the music and fire him asap, or there is going to be more misery of failing to get a coalition, a new election with incertain outcome - in which I expect SPD will lose further ground as SPD voters want an SPD that wants to govern, not one that throws toys out the pram.

Post Brexit Britain is going to start looking good in comparison.

[Medea Fleecestealer]

	Quote:	Reb77Br
	I wonder whether the people who fear a united states of Europe admire the United States of America. It would be ironic if they did!

Don't think it's particularly got anything to do with fear of a USE. The fact is that when a territory votes to join the USA they already know it's the USA. It became what it is through land purchase and conquests.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territ..._United_States

Meanwhile the EU is a collection of long standing independent sovereign nations who've come together for certain mutual purposes/aims. Totally different scenarios. They're used to being in charge of their own destinies and yes, some won't like the idea of more integration into one, big USE. That isn't what they signed on for. It's not what the UK signed on for. Which is why we're leaving.

	Quote:	Medea Fleecestealer
	Which is why we're leaving.

This Brexit departure is more redundant than a Swiss goodbye. Maybe you could leave them a song for remembrance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-l5FyA3pgo

[amogles]

	Quote:	Reb77Br
	I wonder whether the people who fear a united states of Europe admire the United States of America. It would be ironic if they did!

Why ironic?

If we were getting a US-style constitution with all of the first 10 amendments, I'd be all for it.

But if that is what Verhoffstad and Merkel are genuinely proposing, they're not exactly making a good job of saying so.

[MadDad]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Oh, it gets better: https://twitter.com/MartinSchulz/sta...48811375271936

Great - then it would have been Brexit simplified! But he would stand even less chance of that had we stayed in. Only within the EU do we have a voice in what happens. I think you should remember what Farage based the Brexit campaign on and look at the areas which voted leave. The campaign was all about immigration and the £350 million a week that we'll never see. The areas that voted leave are mainly low income low employment areas that got more from EU funding than they will from central govermnent. It goes to show how much they understand about the long term benefits. I really don't think most people had a clue - and certainly not about what was said last week in a referendum which took place last year!

[baboon]

	Quote:	Medea Fleecestealer
	Meanwhile the EU is a collection of long standing independent sovereign nations who've come together for certain mutual purposes/aims. Totally different scenarios. They're used to being in charge of their own destinies and yes, some won't like the idea of more integration into one, big USE. That isn't what they signed on for. It's not what the UK signed on for. Which is why we're leaving.

18 of the current members joined after the 1983 commitment to an "ever closer union" so they knowingly joined the EU with that as its objective. Of the remaining 10, most (apart from the UK naturally) count amongst the strongest drivers for a close union.

What they failed to say is that you can check out anytime you'd like, but you can never leave.

[baboon]

	Quote:	amogles
	Why ironic? If we were getting a US-style constitution with all of the first 10 amendments, I'd be all for it. But if that is what Verhoffstad and Merkel are genuinely proposing, they're not exactly making a good job of saying so.

Never, ever with the 2nd. We can see what that leads to.

The European Convention on Human Rights (compulsory for all EU members) largely covers the rest and rather better imho.

[baboon]

	Quote:	Phos
	What they failed to say is that you can check out anytime you'd like, but you can never leave.

So the UK is not leaving? Not the EUs fault they are so incompetent at doing it.

[marton]

	Quote:	Medea Fleecestealer
	Don't think it's particularly got anything to do with fear of a USE. The fact is that when a territory votes to join the USA they already know it's the USA. It became what it is through land purchase and conquests. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territ..._United_States Meanwhile the EU is a collection of long standing independent sovereign nations who've come together for certain mutual purposes/aims. Totally different scenarios. They're used to being in charge of their own destinies and yes, some won't like the idea of more integration into one, big USE. That isn't what they signed on for. It's not what the UK signed on for. Which is why we're leaving.

"long standing independent sovereign nations "? Depends how you define long standing!
Read up on the Austro-Hungarian Empire or look at the countries occupied by the Nazi's (Austria, Czechoslovakia, Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, France, Denmark, Yugoslavia, Greece, Norway and Western Poland.) or check on the Soviet Union which only demised 26 years ago.

[amogles]

	Quote:	baboon
	Never, ever with the 2nd. We can see what that leads to. The European Convention on Human Rights (compulsory for all EU members) largely covers the rest and rather better imho.

But does it though?

What about freedom of speech, right to trial by jury, state's rights, etc etc, which are all far more compromised in Europe than in the USA.