The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[marton]

	Quote:	amogles
	But does it though? What about freedom of speech, right to trial by jury, state's rights, etc etc, which are all far more compromised in Europe than in the USA.

Sadly nothing to write home about in the USA; less than 4% of US trials are by jury

Not sure what you mean by State's rights? The EU States are sovereign countries which empowers them more than the US States?

[StirB]

Don't forget the important American Right for companies to be treated like people, that's a good one.

[amogles]

	Quote:	marton
	Sadly nothing to write home about in the USA; less than 4% of US trials are by jury Not sure what you mean by State's rights? The EU States are sovereign countries which empowers them more than the US States?

The European States have to go along with new legislation produced by the EU. Including changes to the nature and objectives of the union such as going from being a trading club to an ever clsoer political union.

In the US, the 10th Amendment guarantees (with certain complicated exceptions resulting from conflict with other constitutional provisons) that any rights and priviledges not specifically given to the Federal Govt by the Constitution itself are not vested with the Federal Govt but held by the individual states. The system may be broken in places but in theory it prevents a creeping centralisation of power.

If we had had that in the very fisrt EU treaty, we would still be a happy club of trading nations.

[amogles]

	Quote:	StirB
	Don't forget the important American Right for companies to be treated like people, that's a good one.

and that's in the constitution, is it?

[StirB]

	Quote:	amogles
	and that's in the constitution, is it?

14th Amendment isn't it?

[amogles]

	Quote:	StirB
	14th Amendment isn't it?

you're going to have to explain that to me.

[pdofr]

	Quote:	StirB
	Don't forget the important American Right for companies to be treated like people, that's a good one.

Also don't forget the important American Right for companies to treat people as nothing more than figures on a spreadsheet.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	pdofr
	Also don't forget the important American Right for companies to treat people as nothing more than figures on a spreadsheet.

Remember the primary function of a company is to make a profit for it's shareholders it's not about how many people can you employ & still stay afloat.

[TobiasM]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Remember the primary function of a company is to make a profit for it's shareholders it's not about how many people can you employ & still stay afloat.

Yeah but, being good to your employees is obviously a better way to run a business. Zero hour contracts are a pretty diabolical idea. Also treat your staff like turd and they won't put in the extra mile for your business.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	TobiasM
	Yeah but, being good to your employees is obviously a better way to run a business. Zero hour contracts are a pretty diabolical idea. Also treat your staff like turd and they won't put in the extra mile for your business.

The ideal business would have close to ZERO employees, AI makes this a very exciting reality for many business's. Then the companies can pay higher taxes, so you will be happy.

The more employees want to be paid, the sooner they will be repacked by technology, McDonalds is a good example of this.

	Quote:	TobiasM
	Yeah but, being good to your employees is obviously a better way to run a business. Zero hour contracts are a pretty diabolical idea. Also treat your staff like turd and they won't put in the extra mile for your business.

If Zero Hour contracts are so diabolical, then why are so many people happy on them?

This is yet another myth that has been peddled by the left leaning press. On the whole, zero hour contracts are a good thing as they allow employees to be flexible whilst maintaining many benefits of being in full employment. A few companies like Sports Direct have exploited them, otherwise, there’s nothing wrong with them.

[marton]

	Quote:	amogles
	The European States have to go along with new legislation produced by the EU. Including changes to the nature and objectives of the union such as going from being a trading club to an ever clsoer political union. In the US, the 10th Amendment guarantees (with certain complicated exceptions resulting from conflict with other constitutional provisons) that any rights and priviledges not specifically given to the Federal Govt by the Constitution itself are not vested with the Federal Govt but held by the individual states. The system may be broken in places but in theory it prevents a creeping centralisation of power. If we had had that in the very fisrt EU treaty, we would still be a happy club of trading nations.

No!
European States get to vote on new legislation produced by the EU before it can be enacted, they do not "have to go along".

US States have no vote on new Federal laws.
The Supreme Court has generally stood firm on the supremacy of the national government and the U.S. Constitution in 10th Amendment cases.

[marton]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	If Zero Hour contracts are so diabolical, then why are so many people happy on them? This is yet another myth that has been peddled by the left leaning press. On the whole, zero hour contracts are a good thing as they allow employees to be flexible whilst maintaining many benefits of being in full employment. A few companies like Sports Direct have exploited them, otherwise, there’s nothing wrong with them.

Your link to this Fake News does not work

[roegner]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	If Zero Hour contracts are so diabolical, then why are so many people happy on them? This is yet another myth that has been peddled by the left leaning press. On the whole, zero hour contracts are a good thing as they allow employees to be flexible whilst maintaining many benefits of being in full employment. A few companies like Sports Direct have exploited them, otherwise, there’s nothing wrong with them.

Why? You can´t schedule your life properly as you can get called in any time. You won´t get a mortgage as you have no regular income?

Maybe for someone who wants to earn some money but if you need a regular income to pay the rent, have enough to eat and pay taxes etc etc, I can´t imagine this to be good.

Or what did I miss here? Are there real benefits to that kind of contract?

[marton]

The elections watchdog launched a probe into Jeremy Corbyn's left-wing campaign group Momentum today, questioning whether it smashed spending limits.

It used an app to direct activists to campaign in marginal seats and deployed social media campaigns to win support - but declared spending of just £38,742 ahead of June's general election.

The Electoral Commission said its probe would look into whether Momentum's spending broke legal limits for non-party campaigners in national elections.

Source

	Quote:	roegner
	Why? You can´t schedule your life properly as you can get called in any time. You won´t get a mortgage as you have no regular income? Maybe for someone who wants to earn some money but if you need a regular income to pay the rent, have enough to eat and pay taxes etc etc, I can´t imagine this to be good. Or what did I miss here? Are there real benefits to that kind of contract?

Good for people in full time education, people with other commitments that need flexibility, people that have two jobs. The idea behind them was never to have a regular income and get a mortgage in the first place.

	Quote:	baboon
	The European Convention on Human Rights (compulsory for all EU members) largely covers the rest and rather better imho.

Apart from when it comes to deporting terrorists or getting justice for the killers of a two year old boy.

[Jim2007]

Total nonsense as usual.

	Quote:	amogles
	If we had had that in the very fisrt EU treaty, we would still be a happy club of trading nations.

Every single member state approved the treaties and the changes, in accordance with their own democratic processes. The UK has a sovereign parliament who approved the treaties on behalf of their citizens. The fact that the UK citizens fail to appreciate how their democracy works and in consequence failed to hold their government to account is entirely their affair.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	This is yet another myth that has been peddled by the left leaning press. On the whole, zero hour contracts are a good thing as they allow employees to be flexible whilst maintaining many benefits of being in full employment. A few companies like Sports Direct have exploited them, otherwise, there’s nothing wrong with them.

You really are living on another planet.

https://www.theguardian.com/business...ike-zero-hours

https://www.theguardian.com/business...hours-concerns

http://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/...o-hours-319997

	Quote:	Blueangel
	You really are living on another planet. https://www.theguardian.com/business...ike-zero-hours https://www.theguardian.com/business...hours-concerns http://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/...o-hours-319997

“Nevermind the statistics, I have some articles from left wing newspapers”

Thanks for proving my point.