The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[TobiasM]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	I never made such a comment. However we have all benefited from the industrial revolution. Many people fear change, I look to make the most of every situation.

You implied that because it is better for profit it is better society. The industrial revolution happened a long time ago and while it improved some peoples lives, it did not improve everybodies lives, it was also responsible for child labour, chronic health issues, pollution and environmental degredation, and a huge disparity in wealth.

Now I am not trying to take the socialist corner here, but automation in the work space might seem a more streamlined and cost effective solution to big business and to people like yourself. But once they have banked those extra dollars in a tax haven, it wont go back into the society that will then be required to fork out more in unemployement and health costs. Plus its the classic shoot yourself in the foot scenario, if people dont have the money for your services in the first place (as they have all been replaced by automation) how will your business generate cash and grow?

Are any of these points they are currently "agreeing" on ultimately binding, or can the whole slew of it be wiped off the table if they don't agree on the whole package?

[TobiasM]

	Quote:	marton
	No it is not. Firstly it is not a suggestion but an agreement. The article says there will be no hard border between Ireland and NI but also no hard border between NI and England due to "this would be undertaken by continued alignment of the whole of the UK with the EU." What will this alignment constitute? Look at free movement alone if there are to be no hard borders between Ireland and England!

Sure but it will be a longer slog for anyone wanting to slip in without stronger border controls. I think it will constitute that people carrying Irish passports will just have a green channel to pass through, i.e. flash your i.d. The immigration officers will definitly be trying to stop those that are non-Irish. There are softer and stronger border controls already at UK airports and Seaports, its really to do with the channel you choose to walk down, or am I wrong?

[marton]

	Quote:	TobiasM
	Sure but it will be a longer slog for anyone wanting to slip in without stronger border controls. I think it will constitute that people carrying Irish passports will just have a green channel to pass through, i.e. flash your i.d. The immigration officers will definitly be trying to stop those that are non-Irish. There are softer and stronger border controls already at UK airports and Seaports, its really to do with the channel you choose to walk down, or am I wrong?

The issue is that the people of NI are British so do not need a passport to travel to the UK mainland and vice versa.

The Common Travel Area means that there are no passport controls in operation for Irish and UK citizens travelling between the 2 countries.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	TobiasM
	There are softer and stronger border controls already at UK airports and Seaports, its really to do with the channel you choose to walk down, or am I wrong?

I don't think there are any soft borders at UK Airports & most flights are from Schengen or outside the EU. Until Schengen all UK borders were 'soft' & very rarely showed a passport.

[marton]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	I don't think there are any soft borders at UK Airports & most flights are from Schengen or outside the EU. Until Schengen all UK borders were 'soft' & very rarely showed a passport.

Flights from Ireland arrive on the domestic side of airports?

[marton]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	GDP ranking is irrelevant? LOL, you can't be that thick, surely? I'll make it simple for you. Let's say marton comes up with a super new recipe for marmalade. We'll call it marton's marvelous marmalade. Now you want to sell your marmalade so look for places where you can shift it. You start at your local convenience store, where the owner Volkan shrugs and says, "why not", he's just happy for the extra business. In fact, he says his brother Murat who has a store in the next village can also stock it. Furthermore, you also convince some farmers markets to sell your marvelous marmalade as well as the local petrol station. Good for you. You've negotiated all those deals. Now with confidence you want to branch out, you go to Coop, Migros, Aldi, Globus and Jelmoli. But they all tell you to get to cock off. But you're marton, you don't worry, you've negotiated all those deals. Murat flogs a couple of jars here, the farmers market a few more there. The number of sold is irrelevant. That you can stock your marmalade in all these different places shows how good you are at negotiation. Beat me to it. If marton thinks the EU is good at negotiating trade deals, then Switzerland are on the 10th Dan.

EU just finalised their free trade deal with Japan, the deal - the largest struck by the EU - is expected to liberalise almost all trade between the bloc and the world's third-largest economy.

Must be a superior sort of marmalade

If you still want to claim the EU are not good at negotiation then please provide a list of points the UK have won so far during the Brexit negotiation.

[marton]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Despite the difficult week and the incompetent government that's likely going to screw this up, let's remind ourselves again why Brexit happened. And why, despite everything else, it was the correct decision. German SPD leader Martin Schulz seeks 'United States of Europe' by 2025 https://twitter.com/MartinSchulz/sta...48359720013824 The good news for the EU is that Schulz can't even win an election in his own country.

Schulz is just trying to find an argument to convince SPD supporters that the coalition with Merkel would be a good idea; it means no more than any other campaign promise.

[Uncle Max]

	Quote:	marton
	...If you still want to claim the EU are not good at negotiation then please provide a list of points the UK have won so far during the Brexit negotiation.

You seem to misunderstand the motivation of several on this thread.

Have a great weekend everybody.

[Urs Max]

	Quote:	marton
	EU just finalised their free trade deal with Japan, the deal - the largest struck by the EU - is expected to liberalise almost all trade between the bloc and the world's third-largest economy.

Think back to the paper with requests issued by Japanese companies with factories in the UK that was published about one year ago. They must wish they had built on the continent instead, knowing that factories on the continent will suffer none of the issues those on the British islands will after 2021 (after the transition period is over).

Spain became the 2nd biggest EU cars manufacturer a few years ago for a reason.

[marton]

	Quote:	Urs Max
	Think back to the paper with requests issued by Japanese companies with factories in the UK that was published about one year ago. They must wish they had built on the continent instead, knowing that factories on the continent will suffer none of the issues those on the British islands will after 2021 (after the transition period is over). Spain became the 2nd biggest EU cars manufacturer a few years ago for a reason.

Good point.

Future issues will depend on exactly what Davis meant by his rather obscure statement "this would be undertaken by continued [regulatory] alignment of the whole of the UK with the EU".
How far will this alignment stretch?

[marton]

From the Guardian;

	Quote:
	The joint divorce agreement hammered out makes clear that little remains of the many red lines set out by Theresa May in her Lancaster House speech or party conference address of 2016.

Source

Worth reading as it spells out better than I could the many areas where UK will be at risk of having to follow EU regulations

Even as the situation stands today the UK will have to follow new EU laws for some years without being able to influence their development.

[Urs Max]

	Quote:	marton
	Good point. Future issues will depend on exactly what Davis meant by his rather obscure statement "this would be undertaken by continued [regulatory] alignment of the whole of the UK with the EU". How far will this alignment stretch?

It can only mean that the UK will implement changes in EU law domestically. Thus, UK's version of the "autonomer Nachvollzug" Swiss government so proudly propagated not too long ago.

[amogles]

	Quote:	marton
	Schulz is just trying to find an argument to convince SPD supporters that the coalition with Merkel would be a good idea; it means no more than any other campaign promise.

But if you have to lie to your supporters to get them to vote for you, what does that say about the popularity of your real intentions?

[Urs Max]

	Quote:	amogles
	But if you have to lie to your supporters to get them to vote for you, what does that say about the popularity of your real intentions?

£350mln a week anybody?

[TobiasM]

	Quote:	marton
	Flights from Ireland arrive on the domestic side of airports?

True, but if a foreign national from outside of the E.U or Schengen arrives at a domestic port, what have they had to do previously to gain access? All non E.U./Schengen nationalities are granted different Visas even for different countries within the E.U. I am just asking if it will be that different for non E.U. Passport holders to enter the U.K. even if the soft borders remain?

[amogles]

	Quote:	Urs Max
	£350mln a week anybody?

I thought that might come up.

So I guess that makes it OK?

[Urs Max]

	Quote:	amogles
	I thought that might come up. So I guess that makes it OK?

No. It's just hypocritical to criticize one but support the other.

[Rob]

http://newsthump.com/2017/12/08/uk-a...o-as-its-told/

[amogles]

	Quote:	Urs Max
	No. It's just hypocritical to criticize one but support the other.

Or otherwise, whereas UKIP did it maliciously, Schuiltz can claim that he's incompetent and thus you can't blame him for anything.

Like the time he got angry at Berlusconi thinking a Kapo was a type of SS officer?

The man is a walking joke.