The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

	Quote:	Blueangel
	What?!!! That was a master stroke of expediency. It gives the UK legal professionals the luxury of time to untangle our combined legislations. So you would prefer to eradicate all the laws made in the last 40yrs and have the legal system start from scratch? Bonkers! That would take decades to recover from.

No, my point is where was the argument for Parliamentary sovereignty when EU laws were written on to the statue book without Parliamentary debate? There was only silence. And now all of a sudden we have to have Parliamentary process? It's hypocrisy, pure and simple

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	There was only silence. And now all of a sudden we have to have Parliamentary process? It's hypocrisy, pure and simple

There was a vote on it at stage one, and the process is yet to be completed, so where's the hypocrisy?

	Quote:
	More than 100 MPs had their say during the two-day second reading debate.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-41235522

When it comes to this entire process, listen to Keir Starmer. He tends to be very factual and understands the rule of law better than 97% of his colleagues on both sides of the aisle. He isn't an untarnished person, but his grasp of the legality of this process is second to none.

	Quote:	Blueangel
	There was a vote on it at stage one, and the process is yet to be completed, so where's the hypocrisy? http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-41235522 When it comes to this entire process, listen to Keir Starmer. He tends to be very factual and understands the rule of law better than 97% of his colleagues on both sides of the aisle. He isn't an untarnished person, but his grasp of the legality of this process is second to none.

I was referring to laws enacted over the past 40 years of membership.

Keir Starmer is no better than any of them. Him and his party need to get off the fence and state what they actually want from Brexit. At the moment they're just opposing everything for opposition’s sake.

Well, they are the opposition.

[marton]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	No, my point is where was the argument for Parliamentary sovereignty when EU laws were written on to the statue book without Parliamentary debate? There was only silence. And now all of a sudden we have to have Parliamentary process? It's hypocrisy, pure and simple

But Parliamentary sovereignty did apply before EU laws were written on to the UK statue book? You are wrong, again!

Like many Brexit supporters you have no clue about how the relationship worked between the UK and the EU!

	Quote:
	What is UK Parliament’s role in Europe? Scrutinising EU draft legislation and other EU documents. Changing UK law to reflect agreed EU legislation and treaties. Holding the government to account on its EU policies and negotiating positions in the EU institutions. The Scrutiny Reserve Resolutions The UK Parliament receives copies of EU documents, together with an Explanatory Memorandum (EM) prepared by the relevant government department. Documents are considered by the Scrutiny Committees in both the Commons and the Lords. The Commons committee In the Commons, the European Scrutiny Committee considers all EU documents and reports its opinion on the legal and political importance of each one. The committee may decide that no further scrutiny is required, or it may request further information from the government or recommend the document for debate in a European Legislation Committee or in the Commons chamber.

	Quote:	marton
	But Parliamentary sovereignty did apply before EU laws were written on to the UK statue book? You are wrong, again! Like many Brexit supporters you have no clue about how the relationship worked between the UK and the EU!

Now please refer me to the Parliamentary debates and votes involving the entire house.

	Quote:	marton
	But Parliamentary sovereignty did apply before EU laws were written on to the UK statue book? You are wrong, again! Like many Brexit supporters you have no clue about how the relationship worked between the UK and the EU!

Butt Immigants!1!

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	I was referring to laws enacted over the past 40 years of membership

Are you refering to 'The Great Repeal Bill 2016'? If so, then it may have escaped your notice that this has been reframed as 'The European Union (Withdrawal) Bill 2017-2019'. Hence, the debate happened a few months ago, as stated above, with over 100 MPs having their say on the matter (I watched huge chunks of that debate). They're on stage 3 of the process now.

Also, some politicians are excellent legal minds. Many are not and have skills in other areas. Keir Starmer is one of those respected excellent legal minds, regardless of his party politics. I find that people often get confused when the line between law and politics is crossed. Starmer is more than capable of framing issues in non-partisan legal terms, and does so the majority of the time.

[Medea Fleecestealer]

A crazy ruling which highlights why we made the right choice to leave.

"A Home Office policy of removing EU citizens found sleeping rough on UK streets is unlawful and must stop, the High Court has ruled.

A judge said the measure, introduced last year, was discriminatory and broke freedom of movement rules.

The case was brought by campaigners on behalf of three men facing removal.

They say the decision - which applies to those from the EU and four other nations in the European economic area - will affect hundreds of people."

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-42354864

You have to ask why they prefer to sleep homeless on UK streets than return to their home countries where they can hopefully put their lives back on track. Oh, let me guess - they're probably getting some government handouts that they can't get back home.

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Are you refering to 'The Great Repeal Bill 2016'? If so, then it may have escaped your notice that this has been reframed as 'The European Union (Withdrawal) Bill 2017-2019'. Hence, the debate happened a few months ago, as stated above, with over 100 MPs having their say on the matter (I watched huge chunks of that debate). They're on stage 3 of the process now. Also, some politicians are excellent legal minds. Many are not and have skills in other areas. Keir Starmer is one of those respected excellent legal minds, regardless of his party politics. I find that people often get confused when the line between law and politics is crossed. Starmer is more than capable of framing issues in non-partisan legal terms, and does so the majority of the time.

I'm referring to this:



Starmer may have an excellent legal mind. But as Shadow Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union, I'd prefer it if he and his party would come up with some policies, or ideas on what direction Brexit should take. If they were anything other than incompetent they'd be killing this government over Brexit.

[marton]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Now please refer me to the Parliamentary debates and votes involving the entire house.

What is the point of that?

In case you failed to understand the process I repeat;
the European Scrutiny Committees consider all EU documents that propose new laws and decides which ones require a full House debate!

If you want to dispute the European Scrutiny Committees conclusions you are welcome to read their reports here.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	I'm referring to this:

Which is exactly what I'm refering to with 'The Great Repeal Bill 2016' and 'The European Union (Withdrawal) Bill 2017-2019'.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe...thdrawal)_Bill

[marton]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	I'm referring to this: Starmer may have an excellent legal mind. But as Shadow Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union, I'd prefer it if he and his party would come up with some policies, or ideas on what direction Brexit should take. If they were anything other than incompetent they'd be killing this government over Brexit.

You have just destroyed your own argument that EU laws were written on to the statue book without Parliamentary debate.

I quote from your post; 231 Acts of Parliament implemented EU obligations.
An Act of Parliament is a Bill that has been approved by both the House of Commons and the House of Lords and been given Royal Assent by the Monarch.

To quote from your post yesterday

	Quote:
	The stupid. It burns.

[Uncle Max]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	At the moment they're just opposing everything for opposition’s sake.

Hmm, reminds me of someone

	Quote:	Medea Fleecestealer
	A crazy ruling which highlights why we made the right choice to leave. <snip> You have to ask why they prefer to sleep homeless on UK streets than return to their home countries where they can hopefully put their lives back on track. Oh, let me guess - they're probably getting some government handouts that they can't get back home.

Er, hi, you're talking about people. People who have no option but to sleep on the streets. Very convenient for them to sleep on comfortable British streets, you should send them a bill for their pitch. How very dare they!

If you're of No Fixed Abode you do not receive any help: you're invisible. You rely on charity and begging. "Spare some change, mate?" may intimidate or annoy you to high heaven, but if they didn't need it they wouldn't ask. Have you ever tried to survive with just the clothes on your back and the cold wind?

A large number of homeless people have mental health problems. Nobody is there to look out for them. There will be foreigners with every right to be in the UK who find themselves in difficulty, never mind 'native' Brits in the same situation - which is skyrocketing, thanks to austerity.

Foreign people who are homeless often have nobody to care for them but the drugs and the anguish in their head. And loneliness. A lot have broken families who they are trying to support while living on the street. Your response - in this season, if it matters at all - sounds terribly detached from humanity and more about point scoring.

What do you want? Old maids cycling to Mass on Sunday mornings in some harking to a time which never was?

	Quote:	Loz1983
	I'd prefer it if he and his party would come up with some policies, or ideas on what direction Brexit should take. If they were anything other than incompetent they'd be killing this government over Brexit.

What are your proposals? It's a dogs dinner; no use bashing unless you have proposals yourself.

[Chuff]

	Quote:
	My sense of humour appears to be an acquired taste.

It's ok, while Urs is known for many things, I am not sure a sense of humour is one of them.

[Medea Fleecestealer]

	Quote:	Uncle Max
	Hmm, reminds me of someone Er, hi, you're talking about people. People who have no option but to sleep on the streets. Very convenient for them to sleep on comfortable British streets, you should send them a bill for their pitch. How very dare they! If you're of No Fixed Abode you do not receive any help: you're invisible. You rely on charity and begging. "Spare some change, mate?" may intimidate or annoy you to high heaven, but if they didn't need it they wouldn't ask. Have you ever tried to survive with just the clothes on your back and the cold wind? A large number of homeless people have mental health problems. Nobody is there to look out for them. There will be foreigners with every right to be in the UK who find themselves in difficulty, never mind 'native' Brits in the same situation - which is skyrocketing, thanks to austerity. Foreign people who are homeless often have nobody to care for them but the drugs and the anguish in their head. And loneliness. A lot have broken families who they are trying to support while living on the street. Your response - in this season, if it matters at all - sounds terribly detached from humanity and more about point scoring. What do you want? Old maids cycling to Mass on Sunday mornings in some harking to a time which never was? What are your proposals? It's a dogs dinner; no use bashing unless you have proposals yourself.

There are always options. There are plenty of places to seek help from in the UK and probably in most other EU countries as well. This is just one thing being set up for Christmas.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-42333056

[marton]

	Quote:	Uncle Max
	Hmm, reminds me of someone Er, hi, you're talking about people. People who have no option but to sleep on the streets. Very convenient for them to sleep on comfortable British streets, you should send them a bill for their pitch. How very dare they! If you're of No Fixed Abode you do not receive any help: you're invisible. You rely on charity and begging. "Spare some change, mate?" may intimidate or annoy you to high heaven, but if they didn't need it they wouldn't ask. Have you ever tried to survive with just the clothes on your back and the cold wind? A large number of homeless people have mental health problems. Nobody is there to look out for them. There will be foreigners with every right to be in the UK who find themselves in difficulty, never mind 'native' Brits in the same situation - which is skyrocketing, thanks to austerity. Foreign people who are homeless often have nobody to care for them but the drugs and the anguish in their head. And loneliness. A lot have broken families who they are trying to support while living on the street. Your response - in this season, if it matters at all - sounds terribly detached from humanity and more about point scoring. What do you want? Old maids cycling to Mass on Sunday mornings in some harking to a time which never was? What are your proposals? It's a dogs dinner; no use bashing unless you have proposals yourself.

Stop trying to confuse people with facts
This is EF

	Quote:	marton
	You have just destroyed your own argument that EU laws were written on to the statue book without Parliamentary debate. I quote from your post; 231 Acts of Parliament implemented EU obligations. An Act of Parliament is a Bill that has been approved by both the House of Commons and the House of Lords and been given Royal Assent by the Monarch.

Are you blind? 4283 weren't passed through Parliament yet were automatically binding on the UK. Where is the Parliamentary sovereignty for those?

	Quote:	Uncle Max
	What are your proposals? It's a dogs dinner; no use bashing unless you have proposals yourself.

So Labour shouldn't bash the government, because they have no proposals themselves

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	marton
	Stop trying to confuse people with facts This is EF

I'll chuck a fact in the air...

Aged 22, in full time work commuting to Manchester city centre, I was homeless for 6mths. Thanks the the kindness of friends and family allowing me to sofa surf, I never had to sleep rough. I was in that situation because I'd walked out of a 4yr relationship which had become violent, with just the clothes on my back. With all the help and advice possible, it still took 6mths to find alternative accommodation because my name was already on a tenancy agreement.

Some people (it appears) have little life experience, zero compassion and a lot of spite in their veins.