The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[Phil_MCR]

From 2013 (when CFP was overhauled): The UK provides the EU with 70% of the fishing but gets only 13% by value of the quota. Giving away about £5 billion a year.

Of course, these costs are never included in the gains the UK would have from leaving the EU or considered in the cost of continued membership.

An it isn't just in monetary terms, but also a question of jobs maintaining knowledge and slowing the decline of fishing villages and industry.

How does this work?

[st2lemans]

	Quote:	Sbrinz
	A little European quiz, it is quite hard, which is why I scored 16 out of 28! http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-...endum-36400702

"C'est magnifique

You scored 28 out of 28"

Tom

[curley]

	Quote:	lewton
	I was kidding. It was funny how you excuse yourself from not knowing a lot about Eastern Europe because it is... Eastern. No offense meant.

Let's face it, when I went to school, it was UDSSR, nice and easy to pass the exams

[amogles]

	Quote:	curley
	Let's face it, when I went to school, it was UDSSR, nice and easy to pass the exams

When I went to school it was USSR even

apparently the spelling was CCCP

[curley]

	Quote:	amogles
	When I went to school it was USSR even apparently the spelling was CCCP

I was tought in German therefore the article "der" is included

[Pachyderm]

	Quote:	Medea Fleecestealer
	The EU are beginning to run scared. http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-...endum-36429331 If the UK leads the way, I expect others will follow.

Purely anecdotal but at lunch today, a Dutch colleague was saying that there is quite a groundswell of people in the Netherlands who are hoping for Brexit because there is so much disenchantment with the EU. And an Italian said something similar -- that many Italians hope it will increase pressure for a referendum, following increasing concern about the number of migrants from Africa.

In the interests of balance, I've found that my German and French colleagues seem to be horrified at the possibility (perhaps because they fear this sort of domino effect).

[Blueangel]

Been back in the UK a week now and can honestly say I don't know a single person who will definitely be voting to leave the EU. Amongst my friends, family and others who I've met, it's looking like 50/50 remain and don't know / can't say. The only person who said leave was my best mate who was hammered at the time (it was his birthday) and got roundly shouted down and called a number of names that are probably banned here by all the guys present.

The 'can't say' are voting officials. I called my local council to let them know I've got a poll card that I'm not entitled to as I'm registered under another council, plus it was in my married name from a few years ago. Oops! Thought I recognised the person on the other end of the phone...she recognised me...only my best mate's wife drafted in from another department because they're being swamped with voting applications and queries.

[amogles]

	Quote:	Pachyderm
	Purely anecdotal but at lunch today, a Dutch colleague was saying that there is quite a groundswell of people in the Netherlands who are hoping for Brexit because there is so much disenchantment with the EU. And an Italian said something similar -- that many Italians hope it will increase pressure for a referendum, following increasing concern about the number of migrants from Africa. In the interests of balance, I've found that my German and French colleagues seem to be horrified at the possibility (perhaps because they fear this sort of domino effect).

There has been a swell of Euroscepticism in Holland for some time now, and not just that associated with the far right, but across the parties.

Interestingly, many Dutch consider that Britain is the EU country that most shares their views on how the EU should be (about trade, not political union) and if the UK goes, they see no point in staying.

Interestingly my Hungarian friends say it was a fatal mistake that Hungary aligned with the great German speaking countries for the great conflicts of the 20th Century. They would have done better and Europe would have done better if Hungary had sought to be an ally of Britain. And they think such a time may be coming again.

[Pachyderm]

	Quote:	Tinkiwinki
	......If Britain wants to go back to their splendid isolation so be it. It would not be smart.

	Quote:	Phil_MCR
	.... It is about self-determination, not isolationism. The UK would have concluded more trade agreements outside the EU than it has within and they would have been tailored to specific UK interests. If anything, it is the EU that is taking a isolationist/protectionist stance.

Exactly. The last thing I want with Brexit is isolationism. I want Britain to be internationalist and global. I want MORE openness, not to live in the shadow of the EU.

As has been often said, Europe and the EU are two quite different entities. Most of us Brexiters love Europe but ("hate" is too strong a word) dislike what the EU has become.

[curley]

	Quote:	st2lemans
	"C'est magnifique You scored 28 out of 28" Tom

Vraiment magnifique! An American who became Swiss knows all about the EU (or did you google every answer?) do I have to worry about us voting on this subject some day?

[Pachyderm]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Been back in the UK a week now and can honestly say I don't know a single person who will definitely be voting to leave the EU. Amongst my friends, family and others who I've met, it's looking like 50/50 remain and don't know / can't say. The only person who said leave was my best mate who was hammered at the time (it was his birthday) and got roundly shouted down and called a number of names that are probably banned here by all the guys present.

Remarkably, that's a totally different impression from mine. I was talking to my family last weekend (2 brothers, 1 sister, 1 elderly parent) and they were struggling to recall a single firm Remainer they work with/know. My dad said that not a single person at his church was planning to vote Remain -- or if they were, they weren't admitting it.

At my workplace here in CH, there are 5 Brits. 3 of us say we're voting Leave.

[marton]

	Quote:	amogles
	There has been a swell of Euroscepticism in Holland for some time now, and not just that associated with the far right, but across the parties. Interestingly, many Dutch consider that Britain is the EU country that most shares their views on how the EU should be (about trade, not political union) and if the UK goes, they see no point in staying. Interestingly my Hungarian friends say it was a fatal mistake that Hungary aligned with the great German speaking countries for the great conflicts of the 20th Century. They would have done better and Europe would have done better if Hungary had sought to be an ally of Britain. And they think such a time may be coming again.

"it was a fatal mistake that Hungary aligned with the great German speaking countries" But they were part of the Austro-Hungarian empire so had little choice

[amogles]

	Quote:	marton
	"it was a fatal mistake that Hungary aligned with the great German speaking countries" But they were part of the Austro-Hungarian empire so had little choice

In the second war they weren't

And anyway, it's a hypothetical discussion

[curley]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	I called my local council to let them know I've got a poll card that I'm not entitled to as I'm registered under another council, plus it was in my married name from a few years ago.

This mess with people getting poll cards without being British ..... or under all the names they ever had in life (woman) ..... is that normal in Britain?? This vote will represent absolutely nothing and would have to be repeated in a third world country ....do we all need to send scrutineers?

Or at least, fair is fair, can I order a box of poll cards?

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	curley
	This mess with people getting poll cards without being British ..... or under all the names they ever had in life (woman) ..... is that normal in Britain?? This vote will represent absolutely nothing and would have to be repeated in a third world country ....do we all need to send scrutineers? Or at least, fair is fair, can I order a box of poll cards?

You need to be on the electoral roll that gets updated every few years. Someone needs to sign that the people named are living there, it's a criminal offence to give a false answer.

[marton]

	Quote:	dodgyken
	Not limited to: Raising of age of consent in all other EU countries to 21 - bolstering the DRKs already solid sex tourism trade. Breaking up of the EUR to allow local economies to function independently. Naked mud wrestling to be added to the Olympics or all EU countries to withdraw from ALL international sporting events Clearly some requests are more realistic than others.

"Naked mud wrestling to be added to the Olympics " We need a more transparent sport

[lewton]

	Quote:	Pachyderm
	Purely anecdotal but at lunch today, a Dutch colleague was saying that there is quite a groundswell of people in the Netherlands who are hoping for Brexit because there is so much disenchantment with the EU. And an Italian said something similar -- that many Italians hope it will increase pressure for a referendum, following increasing concern about the number of migrants from Africa.

Basically this is the main reason why I want Brexit to happen.
The EU establishment needs a shock, and I'd rather it was a Brexit than Marine for president.

[marton]

	Quote:	Phil_MCR
	It's not about a plan, it is about a direction. The choice we have is whether we want to be in a European Federal Superstate or outside of it. There's no plan or deadline for how the EU federal superstate will come either, it is also just a direction, except with the twist that we would not be the ones in control of it, but instead we will be dragged along with the tide of QMV. The French and Germans make no secret about ever closer union, yet the remain crowd cling onto the belief that we will remain with the status quo. The future within the EU and the road to a EU superstate is also a huge unknown, it is just that people get used to it as it is introduced gradually. For me this is a pivotal moment in British history, it will be the UK's chance to leave a bureaucratic, protectionist customs union (which as aspirations of monetary, fiscal and political union) to chart its own way, as it has done successfully for many centuries. It's normal to experience trepidation at change and the unknown, but Britain has faced it in the past and thrived and it will do so again as long as the people are not afraid to give it a try and take this first step to freedom and self-determination.

"The future within the EU and the road to a EU superstate is also a huge unknown" Any organisation that can only make huge changes after 28 countries have agreed the small print will never make huge (or fast) changes.

[marton]

	Quote:	Kreeeee
	Well I've just posted my vote. Let's see where this goes.

Good thing about voting from here is that it is risk free if the leavers win and the UK economy should happen to crash; we are not in that boat

[zurich99]

Why dont all the current EU countries all hold referendums, then all those in favour form their Super State together and all those who dont want it, go about their business?
The SuperState can then carry on with the love-in and all those who just want trade agreement, do just that, have trade agreements?

Clearly I'm missing the bigger picture here, but Im just so over the in/out debate.

Its like being in a playground with the the most popular kid (EU) saying if you dont follow me and do what I say, then I won't be your friend any more and Ill try and trip you up at every point.
Why can't countries just say, yeah great idea but not for us, lets just be friends?
Why does it have to be a punishment thing??

Ugh Im just so over all the Bit**ing from both Brexit/Bremain sides and all the other EU countries crabbing on about how cr*p we will be if we leave.