The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:
	**** you've been out of UK too long and are confused with different political systems. A Referendum in the UK can only be consultative - Cameron had no right whatsoever to promise that it would be implemented, come what may (pun sort of intended) - as it flies directly against the UK's long established system of Parliamentary Democracy. The UK is NOT Switzerland ...

Whilst legally that is correct, there is no way a government would ever get away with such silly games, the electorate would revolt in no uncertain terms. I am not confused
Just because you do not like the outcome, it was clear that it was a once in a generation vote so no need to do it again & again until you get the answer you want.

[Medea Fleecestealer]

Yeah, just imagine what the reaction would have been back in 1975 when the vote was to stay in the EU, but the government pulled us out then. I'm sure you'd have been saying "oh, but it's only a consultative referendum." You'd have been furious that the government didn't do what the UK public voted for, consultative or not.

The UK is not Switzerland, but because the UK holds so few national referendums they are effectively not only consultative. but binding. Any UK government that thinks otherwise cuts its throat come the next election.

[curley]

So, if parliament must approve change - how could Mrs. May sign and send off the the article 50 letter?!

If parliament does not approve, what's it gonna be? "April's fool"? The letter was delivered on March 29th

	Quote:	Medea Fleecestealer
	Any UK government that thinks otherwise cuts its throat come the next election.

What a bunch of cowards.

The whining and grovelling is nothing like what we've known Brits for in the past. Whatever happened to the stiff upper lip? Do we have Fake Brits nowadays? Get on with it already!

[curley]

	Quote:	Phos
	What a bunch of cowards. The whining and grovelling is nothing like what we've known Brits for in the past. Whatever happened to the stiff upper lip? Do we have Fake Brits nowadays? Get on with it already!

You're not helping here. Get on with what? In? Out?

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	Medea Fleecestealer
	The UK is not Switzerland, but because the UK holds so few national referendums they are effectively not only consultative. but binding. Any UK government that thinks otherwise cuts its throat come the next election.

May asked for a mandate to carry out the views expressed in the referendum and she failed miserably to get that mandate. Labour did not get the mandate either, so at this point the proper approach would be to hand back to the people in another GE because at the end of the day a GE is the only thing that counts in the UK.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Whilst legally that is correct, there is no way a government would ever get away with such silly games, the electorate would revolt in no uncertain terms. I am not confused Just because you do not like the outcome, it was clear that it was a once in a generation vote so no need to do it again & again until you get the answer you want.

Because you think that as 'the people' realise they have been lied to, misled, betrayed - they won't revolt? Wales, Grimsby, Cornwall, the 'North' ... The NHS, workers' right, social welfare, the environment, more immigration not less - and probably more from non EU, etc, etc - and when they realise this is what is really behind it, as YOU said

'The ideal business would have close to ZERO employees, AI makes this a very exciting reality for many business's. Then the companies can pay higher taxes, so you will be happy.

The more employees want to be paid, the sooner they will be repacked by technology'

Really?

The Tories are as divided as ever. From Heseltine today:

'Asked what could happen under five years of a Corbyn government, he said: “Well, we have survived Labour governments before. Their damage tends to be short-term and capable of rectification. Brexit is not short-term and is not easily capable of rectification. There will be those who question whether the short-term pain justifies the avoidance of the long-term disaster.”

Heseltine argued public opinion was already beginning to move against Brexit and Labour would end up changing its current position to one in favour of the EU, which could put the Conservatives in trouble with their pro-remain voters.

“If you look at the polls there is probably a bigger majority against Brexit than the referendum secured, but that, I think, will continue to happen and it will become more and more unpopular as people realise what it’s all about,” he said in the podcast, named after the declaration that gave rise to the Social Democratic party , and hosted by the activist William Porteous.

“When that happens, the Labour party will move, and the present government will be left holding the baby. But then you have got to realise the present government is supported by large numbers of people as opposed to Brexit as I am. How long will they remain within the tribe and loyal to the party?”

At the same time, in the Labour Party, things are a-stirring too (Guardian today):

The YouGov survey of 1,075 voters polled people who intend to vote Labour at the next election and was undertaken between 17 and 19 December. Although there are many polls of whether the public is changing its mind about Brexit, the survey is one of the first tests of whether Labour specifically faces an electoral price among its current projected voters if it shifts away from its current ambivalent stance.

In the poll, 63% of self-identified Labour supporters say they would be “delighted or pleased” if Labour said it would stop Brexit and stay in the European Union.

Another 21% would oppose such a policy, 11% said they would be angry and 10% disappointed if the leadership adopted such a stance. Ten per cent said they would not mind.

By contrast, only 22% of Labour supporters said they would be delighted or pleased if Labour said it would proceed with Brexit and ensure the UK leaves the EU, 51% said they would be disappointed or angry, and 19% said they would not mind.

Just over 50% of the group that said they were currently Labour supporters but may change their mind claimed they would be either angry or disappointed if Labour promised to proceed with Brexit.

[Medea Fleecestealer]

Gosh, even my maths can see that doesn't add up.

63+21+11+10+10 = 115%.

22+51+19 = 92%.

[curley]

	Quote:	Medea Fleecestealer
	Gosh, even my maths can see that doesn't add up. 63+21+11+10+10 = 115%. 22+51+19 = 92%.

gee, I had it all copied to paste it and then you come along and take the words out my mouth!

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	Medea Fleecestealer
	Gosh, even my maths can see that doesn't add up. 63+21+11+10+10 = 115%. 22+51+19 = 92%.

Indeed, when senior UK School teachers can't count to 100, it shows how far the UK has fallen. Clearly a change of course is needed.

	Quote:	Medea Fleecestealer
	Gosh, even my maths can see that doesn't add up. 63+21+11+10+10 = 115%. 22+51+19 = 92%.

Badly written but the 11% and first 10% are a breakdown of the 21%. So:
63+21+10=94.

The remaining 6 (and the 8 in the second sum) are presumably don't knows or won't answers.

	Quote:
	Badly written but the 11% and first 10% are a breakdown of the 21%. So: 63+21+10=94. The remaining 6 (and the 8 in the second sum) are presumably don't knows or won't answers.

Understanding this requires a modicum of skill in problem solving and reading comprehension.

Not saying there is any correlation between those who immediately jumped on it without being able to parse the figures and their Brexit position, but we are just a Groundskeeper short of a full house.

[FrankZappa]

Here's another fun aspect of Brexit - many of Britain's imports come through Rotterdam's monstrous container port, but post-Brexit they will either 1) have to go through customs there, which don't exist Or 2) Be imported as containers into the UK, which does not have the infrastructure.



Phloz will explain to us how this is not a problem...

Democracy is a process indeed:

https://www.facebook.com/RTUKnews/vi...1692740787267/

[Medea Fleecestealer]

	Quote:	FrankZappa
	Here's another fun aspect of Brexit - many of Britain's imports come through Rotterdam's monstrous container port, but post-Brexit they will either 1) have to go through customs there, which don't exist Or 2) Be imported as containers into the UK, which does not have the infrastructure. https://amp.ft.com/content/b5ee770a-...mpression=true Phloz will explain to us how this is not a problem...

Not going to be a problem.

https://www.porttechnology.org/news/...llar_expansion

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-essex-42395928

https://londongateway.azurewebsites.net/port/overview

[FrankZappa]

	Quote:	Medea Fleecestealer
	Not going to be a problem.

What a relief. More fake news from the failing Financial Times.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:
	Leaving the European Investment Bank would mean removing a source of funding for infrastructure projects as well as EU development aid, but it is premature to evaluate any possible impact at this stage on future potential projects.

https://www.joc.com/analysis-infrast..._20171218.html

As for Corbyn, he has at last confirmed his position- despite 63% of his members now wanting to remain:

https://www.markpack.org.uk/153567/j...nd-referendum/

The only way forward is to join Lib Dems in droves, or Greens, and fight together. And for remain MPs on both sides of the house to join Lib Dems too- if it was good enough for Churchill in times of cirisis, it is good enough for them.

	Quote:	FrankZappa
	What a relief. More fake news from the failing Financial Times.

Even for normal freight and passengers, anyone who has ever been to Calais and seen the massive and complicated security and check infrastructure there- will realise that Dover just cannot accommodate this- for reasons of geography, never mind legistics.