The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:
	Even for normal freight and passengers, anyone who has ever been to Calais and seen the massive and complicated security and check infrastructure there- will realise that Dover just cannot accommodate this- for reasons of geography, never mind legistics.

Gosh, what happened before customs borders ended in the not so distance past?

[marton]

	Quote:	Medea Fleecestealer
	Not going to be a problem. https://www.porttechnology.org/news/...llar_expansion http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-essex-42395928 https://londongateway.azurewebsites.net/port/overview

The Tilbury expansion does not yet have planning permission so neither the project itself nor the timescale are guaranteed.

[Belgianmum]

	Quote:
	Even for normal freight and passengers, anyone who has ever been to Calais and seen the massive and complicated security and check infrastructure there- will realise that Dover just cannot accommodate this- for reasons of geography, never mind legistics.

But they did before so why can't they now? The geography hasn't changed.
In the days before the tunnel everything had to pass via Dover and during the times when the IRA were very active there were an awful lot of security checks going on.

[Jim2007]

David Davis sidelined as civil servant Oliver Robbins takes over Brexit negotiations

	Quote:
	Mr Davis has been the public face of the talks, but sources say that Oliver Robbins, his former permanent secretary, is in effect running the negotiations. They add that Mr Robbins is dealing directly with Michel Barnier as well as Sabine Weyand, his opposite number in the European Commission.

So the Brexiteers now have an unelected bureaucrat leading the negotiations...... oh dear, oh dear

Source

	Quote:	Jim2007
	David Davis sidelined as civil servant Oliver Robbins takes over Brexit negotiations So the Brexiteers now have an unelected bureaucrat leading the negotiations...... oh dear, oh dear Source

Carlsberg doesn't do irony, but if it did...

	Quote:	curley
	You're not helping here. Get on with what? In? Out?

Out! People still hoping to stay in are kind of reprehensible. A small war with Brussels right now would not be such a bad idea.

	Quote:	Belgianmum
	But they did before so why can't they now? The geography hasn't changed. In the days before the tunnel everything had to pass via Dover and during the times when the IRA were very active there were an awful lot of security checks going on.

Not quite sure how to respond here- really.

The world has changed since ........... 1988- somewhat -have you seen the size, height, complexity of the structures at Calais NOW-and who is waiting to cross? When the French stop doing the work for us- what will happen? The French, and those in Calais in particular, cannot wait to get rid of it all- the massive fences, the razor wire and ... the rest.

[lewton]

Let me fix that for you.

	Quote:	Medea Fleecestealer
	Gosh, even my maths can see that doesn't add up. 63+21(11+10)+10 = 115%. 22+51+19 = 92%.

I would have failed my English exam if this is what I had understood from the text.
21 = 11 +10

[lewton]

	Quote:	curley
	gee, I had it all copied to paste it and then you come along and take the words out my mouth!

Basically she saved you the embarrassment.

[curley]

	Quote:	baboon
	Badly written but the 11% and first 10% are a breakdown of the 21%. So: 63+21+10=94. The remaining 6 (and the 8 in the second sum) are presumably don't knows or won't answers.

Producing a statistic which demands the reader to assume things

	Quote:
	Democracy is a process indeed: https://www.facebook.com/RTUKnews/vi...1692740787267/

But not a never ending one.
However: Brexit is a thing of the "hard right, helped by Putin and Russia" ? LOL.

	Quote:	FrankZappa
	What a relief. More fake news from the failing Financial Times.

You too linked the Financial Times
(which is behind a paywall)

[Belgianmum]

	Quote:
	Not quite sure how to respond here- really. The world has changed since ........... 1988- somewhat -have you seen the size, height, complexity of the structures at Calais NOW-and who is waiting to cross? When the French stop doing the work for us- what will happen? The French, and those in Calais in particular, cannot wait to get rid of it all- the massive fences, the razor wire and ... the rest.

They will all still be hanging around Calais trying to get across so it won't really change much for the French will it?
It will be down to the ferry companies and eurotunnel to do the checks before allowing people on just like it was before.
There will certainly be long queues just like there was before.

And yes I have seen what it's like at Calais because like you we also have family and friends in the U.K. The difference is that we are still bound by school holidays so we see it at the busy times.

And for the record I would have voted remain had Cameron abided by his promise of allowing U.K. citizens who had lived outside the UK for more than 15 years the right to vote in the referendum and so would all of my friends who were in the same position. Those votes would probably have made all the difference. But it is what it is and we have to make the best of it and I don't see the point of looking for problems where they might not exist.

[FrankZappa]

	Quote:	curley
	Producing a statistic which demands the reader to assume things But not a never ending one. However: Brexit is a thing of the "hard right, helped by Putin and Russia" ? LOL. You too linked the Financial Times (which is behind a paywall)

Oops, it worked from Reddit/Europe for some reason. Have editted to put in the screengrabbed article.

	Quote:
	The Tories are as divided as ever. From Heseltine today: 'Asked what could happen under five years of a Corbyn government, he said: “Well, we have survived Labour governments before. Their damage tends to be short-term and capable of rectification. Brexit is not short-term and is not easily capable of rectification. There will be those who question whether the short-term pain justifies the avoidance of the long-term disaster.”

That can't possibly be a conservative position. Heseltine has gone senile or was smoking crack.

	Quote:	FrankZappa
	Here's another fun aspect of Brexit - many of Britain's imports come through Rotterdam's monstrous container port, but post-Brexit they will either 1) have to go through customs there, which don't exist Or 2) Be imported as containers into the UK, which does not have the infrastructure. Phloz will explain to us how this is not a problem...

It is a problem, but a problem that can be solved. Brexit was never going to be easy but the end result will make any pain worthwhile. I guess people like you still can't see this as another example of why people voted Brexit in the first place. In the last 40 years so much of running the country has been outsourced to unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats who want nothing more than to control and regulate every single aspect of your miserable life.

Nobody was ever asked if they want a customs port in Rotterdam, nobody was ever asked if they wanted to hand over trade negotiations to the EU, nobody was ever asked if they wanted to have the "four freedoms" of the EU...

[curley]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	It is a problem, but a problem that can be solved. Brexit was never going to be easy but the end result will make any pain worthwhile. ..........

When I read the article about the Rotterdam port (thanks, FrankZappa for displaying it), I remembered something I used to observe on daily basis: If people would invest only 50% of the energy they put into moaning, complaining and explaining why things can't be changed into just going out and DO it, the world (or at least tons of people's lives) would be so much different.

But I guess EF would be half it's size as well

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Nobody was ever asked if they want a customs port in Rotterdam, nobody was ever asked if they wanted to hand over trade negotiations to the EU, nobody was ever asked if they wanted to have the "four freedoms" of the EU...

What are the "four freedoms" of the EU?

[parnell]

free movement of goods, capital, services, and labour.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	parnell
	free movement of goods, capital, services, and labour.

It is exactly the same as any other internal market, including the UK. And demanding access to the EU single market with out accepting FMOP, would be the same as if the UK decided that people in the UK could no longer live and work in one of the other home countries.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	curley
	If people would invest only 50% of the energy they put into moaning, complaining and explaining why things can't be changed into just going out and DO it, the world (or at least tons of people's lives) would be so much different.

Oh I want solutions to a lot of things, my issue is that the logistics and consequences were not part of the initial decision making process. I also don't put my trust in anyone when my personal freedom and autonomy is at stake.

[marton]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	It is a problem, but a problem that can be solved. Brexit was never going to be easy but the end result will make any pain worthwhile. I guess people like you still can't see this as another example of why people voted Brexit in the first place. In the last 40 years so much of running the country has been outsourced to unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats who want nothing more than to control and regulate every single aspect of your miserable life. Nobody was ever asked if they want a customs port in Rotterdam, nobody was ever asked if they wanted to hand over trade negotiations to the EU, nobody was ever asked if they wanted to have the "four freedoms" of the EU...

They are not "unelected"

Some people even voted for Farage

Edit; the customs port in Rotterdam was not an EU decision.

[curley]

	Quote:	parnell
	free movement of goods, capital, services, and labour.

Seems to me since they talk about it all the time it has diminished big time. tbh.

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Oh I want solutions to a lot of things, my issue is that the logistics and consequences were not part of the initial decision making process. I also don't put my trust in anyone when my personal freedom and autonomy is at stake.

I don't quite understand what you are saying.
You don't want brexit because people didn't thinkit through first and it's too much hassle?

Or you want brexit because - as you wouldn't have in your personal life - GB has given away so many things (custom's control, building decent harbours where lading of goods is actually possible .... and what ever more) which now shows how dependent they've become?

That's a genuine question, I didn't understand the meaning of your post.