The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

	Quote:	Castro
	We really are through the looking glass now folks... Farage would back a second referendum Nigel Farage warming to second EU referendum I don't believe the hyperbole about this killing off the Remain vote once and for all. He's realised that the Tories won't give him the hard Brexit Utopia he always dreamt of, so better hit the reset button than be left holding the baby of a bodged Brexit.

Farage maybe starting to lean this way because:

1. Despite what marton, Sandgrounder and Odile say, Leave will very likely win. Again.
2. A second referendum would split the Tory party, perhaps for good
3. For those in the UK who don't seem to grasp referendums, it would put the issue to bed once and for all
4. Another Leave win would be seen as a mandate for a hard Brexit
5. Farage is probably bored and his ego needs some attention. A second referendum would make him "the man" for a short space of time again

	Quote:	Castro
	My thoughts are that he learnt something new at his meeting with Barnier e.g. May has secretly agreed a soft and bouncy Brexit which'll be 'Remain' in all but name. Therefore if he loses a second referendum then at least we won't be lumbered with that and if they win then they have an overwhelming mandate for a nuclear Brexit.

He learnt nothing with Barnier. Barnier has not yet been given his marching orders from the EU Commission for the next round of negotiations. This is just Farage playing games. Whilst Theresa May remains PM, this will almost certainly not happen as she'd be toast. How could she campaign for either side in a second referendum without appearing hypocritical?

[marton]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Farage maybe starting to lean this way because: Despite what marton, Sandgrounder and Odile say, Leave will very likely win. Again. A second referendum would split the Tory party, perhaps for good For those in the UK who don't seem to grasp referendums, it would put the issue to bed once and for all Another Leave win would be seen as a mandate for a hard Brexit Farage is probably bored and his ego needs some attention. A second referendum would make him "the man" for a short space of time again He learnt nothing with Barnier. Barnier has not yet been given his marching orders from the EU Commission for the next round of negotiations. This is just Farage playing games. Whilst Theresa May remains PM, this will almost certainly not happen as she'd be toast. How could she campaign for either side in a second referendum without appearing hypocritical?

When did I ever post that Remain would win a second Referendum?

I do believe Brexit is a crap idea but if people want to vote for it and take the consequences then "good luck".

	Quote:	marton
	When did I ever post that Remain would win a second Referendum? I do believe Brexit is a crap idea but if people want to vote for it and take the consequences then "good luck".

I was thinking of all those polls you keep posting. But if you say you’ve not said it then fair enough.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	Castro
	My thoughts are that he learnt something new at his meeting with Barnier e.g. May has secretly agreed a soft and bouncy Brexit which'll be 'Remain' in all but name.

There is absolutely no way whatsoever the Barnier told him anything that was not already in the public domain.

[Medea Fleecestealer]

	Quote:	Castro
	My thoughts are that he learnt something new at his meeting with Barnier e.g. May has secretly agreed a soft and bouncy Brexit which'll be 'Remain' in all but name. Therefore if he loses a second referendum then at least we won't be lumbered with that and if they win then they have an overwhelming mandate for a nuclear Brexit.

I wish everyone would get this idea of a "soft" Brexit out of their heads. It ain't happening. We will not get into the single market because it means accepting the other 3 principles and that's not what we voted for. We voted LEAVE - that's what we're doing. Leaving the single market, leaving freedom of movement, leaving, leaving, leaving.

[Sandgrounder]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	[*]Another Leave win would be seen as a mandate for a hard Brexit.

The Leave vote was sold as a hard Brexit but with all the fannying around it's not likely to happen. Why do you think a second referendum would make any difference and they would suddenly have the mandate to slam the door?

Your opinion is that a second referendum would also throw up a leave result, which is as good as anyone else's opinion.

There is an awful lot of buyer's remorse out there, borne out of "we didn't know XYZ would happen when we voted". I wouldn't be so bullish about a repeat leave result.

Added to this, confidence in the government is low and people aren't convinced that the current shower can pull Brexit through without leaving the UK with the worst deal in history.

The pound farts a couple of notches up against the Dollar and the tabloids go mental "SEE, EVERYONE?! BREXIT IS WORKING - The pound is absolutely SOARING. HONEST!!"

As I said earlier, though, I don't foresee a repeat referendum so I guess we'll never have to put opinions to the test, will we?

[J2488]

What a clusterf**k.

I'm loving this.

[Las]

All the politicians are just playing games to the detriment of the common man on the street.

[StirB]

Surely the sensible thing would be another referendum, not saying this purely for Remoan reasons, but just for clarification. It shouldn't only be the question last time though, but.

Q1. Should Britain remain a member of the EU? YES/NO

Q2. If the majority of voters vote to leave the EU, what kind of exit should Britain perform? SOFT / HARD

Ideally with some literature describing the difference between SOFT / HARD for the soft in the head / hard of thinking.

[Chuff]

	Quote:	Las
	All the politicians are just playing games to the detriment of the common man on the street.

Yup ...since ancient times.

[baboon]

	Quote:	Las
	All the politicians are just playing games to the detriment of the common man on the street.

How?

Just as with the populace in general they are split. Whatever the exiters like to claim, the vote wasn't decisive and remainers are fully justified in fighting to prevent a damaging hard exit and/or to build up opinion towards remaining in the EU. If the vote had gone the other way by a similar margin the exiters would be doing exactly the same from their own corner and there would almost certainly have been a further vote within a few years.

	Quote:	Sandgrounder
	The Leave vote was sold as a hard Brexit but with all the fannying around it's not likely to happen. Why do you think a second referendum would make any difference and they would suddenly have the mandate to slam the door? Your opinion is that a second referendum would also throw up a leave result, which is as good as anyone else's opinion. There is an awful lot of buyer's remorse out there, borne out of "we didn't know XYZ would happen when we voted". I wouldn't be so bullish about a repeat leave result. Added to this, confidence in the government is low and people aren't convinced that the current shower can pull Brexit through without leaving the UK with the worst deal in history. The pound farts a couple of notches up against the Dollar and the tabloids go mental "SEE, EVERYONE?! BREXIT IS WORKING - The pound is absolutely SOARING. HONEST!!" As I said earlier, though, I don't foresee a repeat referendum so I guess we'll never have to put opinions to the test, will we?

My opinion is based on:

• The main reasons for Brexit in the first place (economy wasn't one of them)
• Brits are a stubborn bunch
• The bookies also reckon so

	Quote:	StirB
	Surely the sensible thing would be another referendum, not saying this purely for Remoan reasons, but just for clarification. It shouldn't only be the question last time though, but. Q1. Should Britain remain a member of the EU? YES/NO Q2. If the majority of voters vote to leave the EU, what kind of exit should Britain perform? SOFT / HARD Ideally with some literature describing the difference between SOFT / HARD for the soft in the head / hard of thinking.

Question 2 wouldn't be possible as we would require the EU's agreement. This will never come.

[Sandgrounder]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	My opinion is based on: The main reasons for Brexit in the first place (economy wasn't one of them) Brits are a stubborn bunch The bookies also reckon so

The bookies were backing odds on Remain as a winner before the last referendum, though, and everyone was bleating about the bookies being the fortune-tellers to trust. Oops!

	Quote:	Sandgrounder
	The bookies were backing odds on Remain as a winner before the last referendum, though, and everyone was bleating about the bookies being the fortune-tellers to trust. Oops!

Bookies are correct more often than not. Which is a good thing, if they were right all the time then no one would use them. This is why I trust bookmakers odds more than polls.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	Medea Fleecestealer
	We voted LEAVE - that's what we're doing. Leaving the single market, leaving freedom of movement, leaving, leaving, leaving.

Not at all! You expressed an opinion, you were then given an opportunity to provide a mandate for that opinion at a GE and you failed to do so. In fact you failed to give either the Tory or Labour version of BREXIT a mandate.

From my point of view having another referendum would be complete nonsense, since no matter what the outcome would be the government does not have sufficient a mandate to carry it.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	StirB
	Q1. Should Britain remain a member of the EU? YES/NO

There is noting in the treaties to allow for this, other than wishful thinking on the part of several politicians on both sides. Any attempt to do so most likely will be met by a legal challenge from some EU citizen and what happens then if ECJ shoots down the option.... You'd have had a vote on something that might not even be possible.

[StirB]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	There is noting in the treaties to allow for this, other than wishful thinking on the part of several politicians on both sides. Any attempt to do so most likely will be met by a legal challenge from some EU citizen and what happens then if ECJ shoots down the option.... You'd have had a vote on something that might not even be possible.

That was the initial question that was asked, what am I missing?

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Bookies are correct more often than not. Which is a good thing, if they were right all the time then no one would use them. This is why I trust bookmakers odds more than polls.

Which is why the industry has to subsidise itself with rip off slot machines where the odds are stacked against the punter. (Disclosure: I worked for Tote Sport for 4+ years.)

[baboon]

	Quote:	StirB
	That was the initial question that was asked, what am I missing?

I think he deleted the wrong part of the quote

[amogles]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Bookies are correct more often than not. Which is a good thing, if they were right all the time then no one would use them. This is why I trust bookmakers odds more than polls.

If they can rig footie matches, maybe they can rig elections?