The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	When was the last time you heard of a butter mountain etc.... you are years behind! Go do a bit of research.

So you want to re-write history do you, when what you believe in has an unpalatable past

	Quote:	marton
	Without subsidies or tariff protection, there would be no UK industry; people would have to eke out a precarious living taking in each others washing

Protectionism did not work in the UK, remember what happened to Leyland cars, cars in the UK had far higher prices than anywhere in Europe 20 years ago, so much so that BMW made 90% of their profits in the UK.

[StirB]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	So you want to re-write history do you, when what you believe in has an unpalatable past

Good point, we were totally self sufficient in 1400, so what's the big problem, right?

When we are talking about a present day Brexit, of course anything but recent history is mostly irrelevant. In fact anything but the present day situation is totally irrelevant. Are there STILL butter / wine mountains? No. Does Britain need to import to make up their 38% food shortfall CURRENTLY? Yes.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	StirB
	Good point, we were totally self sufficient in 1400, so what's the big problem, right? When we are talking about a present day Brexit, of course anything but recent history is mostly irrelevant. In fact anything but the present day situation is totally irrelevant. Are there STILL butter / wine mountains? No. Does Britain need to import to make up their 38% food shortfall CURRENTLY? Yes.

No need to import from the EU, unless they cut prices to match whats available in the open market.

[Uncle Max]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	No need to import from the EU, unless they cut prices to match whats available in the open market.

Are there likely to be fewer horse meat scandals sourcing food from the broader, open market? If standards are going to equal or be better than what we currently tolerate, will costs also be lower? Curious to connect the dots.

[Medea Fleecestealer]

	Quote:	StirB
	Are there STILL butter / wine mountains? No. Does Britain need to import to make up their 38% food shortfall CURRENTLY? Yes.

No, we don't. We just have to stop wasting so much of it.

https://www.food.gov.uk/news-updates...gns/food-waste

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...t-figures-show

And there was a butter mountain as recently as 2016.

https://www.independent.ie/business/...-34540002.html

Although it seems to have been cut down to size once again in 2017.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ices-to-linger

[baboon]

	Quote:	Medea Fleecestealer
	No, we don't. We just have to stop wasting so much of it

Nowhere near enough to make up the shortfall. Or do you want a second world war food economy?

[Medea Fleecestealer]

Well, since a lot of people of a "certain age" seem to live a lot longer on that diet maybe we should. Also bear in mind that if things got that tight food-wise I expect a lot of economic migrants would move elsewhere, leaving more food for the rest of us.

[baboon]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Or the UK imports from Africa, Asia and the Americas without tariffs at a lower price than before.

This is some of what the US demands from a free trade agreement :

Chlorine-washed chicken (banned in the EU).
Hormone-treated beef (banned in the EU).
Ractopamine in pork (banned in the EU).
Chicken litter as animal feed (banned in the EU).
Atrazine-treated crops (banned in the EU). Atrazine is a herbicide used on 90% of sugar cane, which can enter the water supply and interfere with wildlife.
Genetically modified foods (banned in the EU).
Brominated vegetable oil (banned in the EU). BVO is used in citrus drinks; Coca-Cola announced it would stop using BVO in 2004.
Potassium bromate (banned in the EU). A dough conditioner also banned in China, Brazil and Canada, in tests on rats it has been found to be a possible carcinogen.
Azodicarbonamide. A bleaching agent for flour, it has been linked to an increase in tumours in rats.
Food colourants (banned in the UK, regulated in the EU). Can lead to hyperactivity in children.

I do not want any of that sh1t, thanks.

[StirB]

	Quote:	Medea Fleecestealer
	No, we don't. We just have to stop wasting so much of it. https://www.food.gov.uk/news-updates...gns/food-waste https://www.theguardian.com/environm...t-figures-show

Yeah, that's not going to happen, and forced change to consumer behaviour will be viewed incredibly negatively.

	Quote:	Medea Fleecestealer
	And there was a butter mountain as recently as 2016. https://www.independent.ie/business/...-34540002.html Although it seems to have been cut down to size once again in 2017.

It probably melted.

That is also the only article on the topic that comes up if you Google "EU Butter Mountain 2016", which makes me suspicious of the veracity, that and it seems to treat all dairy as a butter mountain, combined with the fact that it seems to be attributing blame to the EU for what is a worldwide MILK surplus.

[marton]

	Quote:	Medea Fleecestealer
	Well, since a lot of people of a "certain age" seem to live a lot longer on that diet maybe we should. Also bear in mind that if things got that tight food-wise I expect a lot of economic migrants would move elsewhere, leaving more food for the rest of us.

Us? Switzerland? You are planning on leaving?

	Quote:	baboon
	This is some of what the US demands from a free trade agreement : Chlorine-washed chicken (banned in the EU). Hormone-treated beef (banned in the EU). Ractopamine in pork (banned in the EU). Chicken litter as animal feed (banned in the EU). Atrazine-treated crops (banned in the EU). Atrazine is a herbicide used on 90% of sugar cane, which can enter the water supply and interfere with wildlife. Genetically modified foods (banned in the EU). Brominated vegetable oil (banned in the EU). BVO is used in citrus drinks; Coca-Cola announced it would stop using BVO in 2004. Potassium bromate (banned in the EU). A dough conditioner also banned in China, Brazil and Canada, in tests on rats it has been found to be a possible carcinogen. Azodicarbonamide. A bleaching agent for flour, it has been linked to an increase in tumours in rats. Food colourants (banned in the UK, regulated in the EU). Can lead to hyperactivity in children. I do not want any of that sh1t, thanks.

Worried about chlorinated chicken? Just wait until you find out what gets put into the UKs water supply.

http://www.dwi.gov.uk/consumers/advi...lets/index.htm

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	Reb77Br
	... when Gove did his solo appearance on Question Time I kept a piece of paper to hand and noted how often he said "control" or "take back control": 13 times in 45 minutes.

The only thing being taken back at our borders is my freakin' duty free at LHR this afternoon. Grrrrrr....

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Fresh out of the oven they are fabulous, shame nothing as good available in CH.

Still not as good as Gregory's... https://www.gregorys.gr/en/piesbakedgoods/

	Quote:	Dougal's Breakfast
	On a cold, wet morning down the park there was nothing to beat a Greggs cheese pastie.

Hampson's cheese & onion pastie wipes the floor with Greggs.

	Quote:	Jim2007
	When was the last time you heard of a butter mountain etc.... you are years behind! Go do a bit of research.

1987. My old housemate met her husband on a protest about an EU butter mountain. They're grandparents now.

[Blueangel]

Besides all this talk of food, it won't be too long at all until the full effect of the collapse of Carillion will be felt.

	Quote:
	Carillion collapse: Ministers under pressure over taxpayer bill after admitting to unknown 'insolvency costs'

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a8159516.html

	Quote:
	Carillion collapse leaves 30,000 businesses losing out on up to £1bn

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/...ns-government/

This should strike anyone who runs a household, never mind a business, as another hefty weight added to an already lopsided ledger. So how many money trees does Theresa have exactly? Would it happen to match the number of tax payers?

Somebody needs to take back control over TM's purse string before they call the receivers in on brand UK.

[marton]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	Worried about chlorinated chicken? Just wait until you find out what gets put into the UKs water supply. http://www.dwi.gov.uk/consumers/advi...lets/index.htm

What is your link supposed to show us?
It is just a list of downloadable leaflets?

The first leaflet is named "How to find a plumber", how this is supposed to help me in the middle of Switzerland?

I think it is past your bedtime

[pdofr]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Remember the primary function of a company is to make a profit for it's shareholders it's not about how many people can you employ & still stay afloat.

But it's not just about profit. From the UK Companies Act 2008

172 Duty to promote the success of the company

(1)A director of a company must act in the way he considers, in good faith, would be most likely to promote the success of the company for the benefit of its members as a whole, and in doing so have regard (amongst other matters) to—

(a)the likely consequences of any decision in the long term,

(b)the interests of the company's employees,

(c)the need to foster the company's business relationships with suppliers, customers and others,

(d)the impact of the company's operations on the community and the environment,

(e)the desirability of the company maintaining a reputation for high standards of business conduct, and

(f)the need to act fairly as between members of the company

A couple of articles you may find informative:

Let’s wrench power back from the billionaires - Bernie Sanders

	Quote:
	In the United States, Jeff Bezos – founder of Amazon, and currently the world’s wealthiest person – has a net worth of more than $100bn. He owns at least four mansions, together worth many tens of millions of dollars. As if that weren’t enough, he is spending $42m on the construction of a clock inside a mountain in Texas that will supposedly run for 10,000 years. But, in Amazon warehouses across the country, his employees often work long, gruelling hours and earn wages so low they rely on Medicaid, food stamps and public housing paid for by US taxpayers.

World's biggest fund BlackRock warns companies to find a social purpose

	Quote:
	Embracing its role as an activist investor, the $1.7 trillion fund has warned companies they must meet high standards in areas such as being a good employer of a diverse workforce as part of a long term strategy. Failure to do so could mean firms lose support from stakeholders, the letter warned. Mr Fink said: “Society is demanding that companies, both public and private serve a social purpose.” He added that as governments were “failing” to prepare for the future, the responsibility for this was increasingly falling to companies and investor.

[Medea Fleecestealer]

	Quote:	marton
	Us? Switzerland? You are planning on leaving?

Us Brits. As for leaving - who knows what's in their futures? Not on the horizon at the moment, but life is ever changing.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Somebody needs to take back control over TM's purse string before they call the receivers in on brand UK.

Indeed the country must run a balanced balance every year, expenditure must not exceed income & debt needs to be paid off.

[StirB]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	1987. My old housemate met her husband on a protest about an EU butter mountain. They're grandparents now.

They were lucky, I know loads of people who started relationships on butter mountains, but it didn't work out. It's a slippery slope, you know.

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Besides all this talk of food, it won't be too long at all until the full effect of the collapse of Carillion will be felt. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a8159516.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/...ns-government/ This should strike anyone who runs a household, never mind a business, as another hefty weight added to an already lopsided ledger. So how many money trees does Theresa have exactly? Would it happen to match the number of tax payers? Somebody needs to take back control over TM's purse string before they call the receivers in on brand UK.

Labour: “The government can’t be trusted to manage its contracts”
Labour: “Let’s nationalise everything!”

[Blueangel]

Yeah, but Corbyn's a dick.

To expand upon this, I'm going to quote one of my mates during a recent debate on Labour's rail privatisation policy...

'Labour has been touting the policy of renationalisation of the railways through a process of not renewing contracts when they expire. Sounds awesome, but on closer inspection this has some severe flaws.
The next UK general election is scheduled for May 2022, by which time all but 6 of the current rail franchises will have been renewed. Of the 6 left, 2 will lapse in 2023, 1 in 2024, 1 in 2025 and the last in 2029. This makes Labour’s current renationalisation plan useless.'

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...chise-schedule