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View Poll Results: What would you personally prefer to happen?
I want the UK to stay in an ever-closer union 49 23.11%
I want the UK to stay in a loosely connected EU 68 32.08%
I want the UK out because the EU is bad for the UK 22 10.38%
I want the UK out because the EU is a bad thing 23 10.85%
I want the UK out because this would be good for the rest of us 17 8.02%
I don't really care 33 15.57%
Voters: 212. You may not vote on this poll

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  #11181  
Old 18.01.2018, 16:00
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Precisely my point. We have nationalised the infrastructure, and we the taxpayer are footing the bill for this.

When the train operators who use the infrastructure make profits, they keep them (many of the franchise owners being foreign owned) and export the profits. Trains have to run, so when they are making losses, the government (or us) have to step in to bail out. Our system is literally the worst of all worlds for the taxpayer (privatised profits / socialised losses) and commuters.
Train operators make an average profit of about 3%. Hardly rinsing the system. The only way to invest the money needed to improve the railways is to either increase fares or increase government investment. First case would upset commuters, for the second, the money has to come from somewhere (magic money tree anyone?). And even if the investment were made, it would be years before it was noticed when travelling by train. It's not an easy problem to solve.
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  #11182  
Old 18.01.2018, 16:08
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Marton was talking about the "refugee" camp at Calais, though. I just thought your response was the usual EF mix-up of migrants and refugees (apols if it wasn't), which has also been pervasive since the beginning of the thread.
There isn't a "refugee camp" in Calais.
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  #11183  
Old 18.01.2018, 16:21
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Train operators make an average profit of about 3%. Hardly rinsing the system. The only way to invest the money needed to improve the railways is to either increase fares or increase government investment. First case would upset commuters, for the second, the money has to come from somewhere (magic money tree anyone?). And even if the investment were made, it would be years before it was noticed when travelling by train. It's not an easy problem to solve.
Not sure how far back your stats go or what source you are using, but the top 10 TOCs made £407m profit last year. I think that kind of money is better in the CotE's pocket, not Deutsche Bahn's, Trenitalia, etc.
  #11184  
Old 18.01.2018, 16:28
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

I taught in Derbyshire and North Nottinghamshire after all the coal mines closed down. If anything had turned round there, it was for the worse! Shops boarded up. Whole communities destroyed. One Avenue I had to drive along on my way to work was nicknamed "Firewood Avenue" because every household on it had had to use their fences and gates as firewood to keep warm in Winter.


Dickensian.


Then the "service industry" moved in. One shopping mall after the other. At least the women got a job on the supermarket till... with kick in the ass salaries! So much for a turnaround.
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  #11185  
Old 19.01.2018, 12:39
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

The Sun has done it again. It has published a "Bye-EU tapestry" which implies that the Queen supports Brexit, putting her in front of a castle with the banner "better orf out".

BYE-EU TAPESTRY The Sun’s Brexit-inspired tapestry shows EU membership was one long stitch-up

March 2016 EU referendum: Palace complains over Queen 'Brexit' story

"Buckingham Palace has complained to the press watchdog over the Sun newspaper's article claiming the Queen backed "Brexit" from the European Union."
  #11186  
Old 19.01.2018, 13:39
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The Sun has done it again. It has published a "Bye-EU tapestry" which implies that the Queen supports Brexit, putting her in front of a castle with the banner "better orf out".

BYE-EU TAPESTRY The Sun’s Brexit-inspired tapestry shows EU membership was one long stitch-up

March 2016 EU referendum: Palace complains over Queen 'Brexit' story

"Buckingham Palace has complained to the press watchdog over the Sun newspaper's article claiming the Queen backed "Brexit" from the European Union."
Actual LOL!
  #11187  
Old 19.01.2018, 19:05
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The Sun has done it again. It has published a "Bye-EU tapestry" which implies that the Queen supports Brexit, putting her in front of a castle with the banner "better orf out".

BYE-EU TAPESTRY The Sun’s Brexit-inspired tapestry shows EU membership was one long stitch-up

March 2016 EU referendum: Palace complains over Queen 'Brexit' story

"Buckingham Palace has complained to the press watchdog over the Sun newspaper's article claiming the Queen backed "Brexit" from the European Union."


The Sun, that well-known source of serious investigative journalism and promotion of the image of women in society!
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  #11188  
Old 19.01.2018, 21:54
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Boris building bridges

Name:  26815512_824125874438524_1092100955939448393_n.jpg
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Last edited by TobiasM; 20.01.2018 at 15:35. Reason: better caption
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  #11189  
Old 20.01.2018, 02:39
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

Tragis news from McVitie's...

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'Seven fewer' McVitie's Digestives in packs because of Brexit
https://news.sky.com/story/seven-few...rexit-11213339
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  #11190  
Old 20.01.2018, 11:09
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

That should save the NHS Billions through lower obesity levels.
  #11191  
Old 20.01.2018, 11:11
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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That should save the NHS Billions through lower obesity levels.
You could have been slimmanfilms, if only the UK left the EU sooner
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  #11192  
Old 20.01.2018, 16:15
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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You could have been slimmanfilms, if only the UK left the EU sooner
It does not sound right, think of Hitchock
Anyway my BMI is normal, not overweight or obese
  #11193  
Old 21.01.2018, 21:21
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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It does not sound right, think of Hitchock
Anyway my BMI is normal, not overweight or obese
Are you comparing yourself to Hitchcock?
  #11194  
Old 21.01.2018, 21:27
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Are you comparing yourself to Hitchcock?
Hitchcock is the one in the hat
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  #11195  
Old 21.01.2018, 23:07
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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The Sun has done it again. It has published a "Bye-EU tapestry" which implies that the Queen supports Brexit, putting her in front of a castle with the banner "better orf out".

BYE-EU TAPESTRY The Sun’s Brexit-inspired tapestry shows EU membership was one long stitch-up
Full hi-res version available here.
  #11196  
Old 22.01.2018, 20:37
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

This isn't awkward

CBI insiders push for new campaign to reverse Brexit
  #11197  
Old 23.01.2018, 15:14
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Precisely my point. We have nationalised the infrastructure, and we the taxpayer are footing the bill for this.

When the train operators who use the infrastructure make profits, they keep them (many of the franchise owners being foreign owned) and export the profits. Trains have to run, so when they are making losses, the government (or us) have to step in to bail out. Our system is literally the worst of all worlds for the taxpayer (privatised profits / socialised losses) and commuters.
Making a profit is not necessarily the same as running for the hills with somebopdy else's money.

Railways in Britain have been a basket case long before privatization. Mrs Thatcher disliked the railways and cut back on spending, meaning the railways had to keep afloat by postponing maintenance and praying things wouldn't go too badly wrong. That strategy can work for some years, especially if the system was overbuilt to begin with (which in Britain's case it wasn't) but sooner or later you have to make up on the backlog.

Only that when Mrs Thatcher came to power, British Rail was already basket case as previous governments hadn't done much either. The last great injection of taxpayer money had been the Modernization Plan of the 1960s, which itself was badly botched, and after that money was just injected to keep the whole thing rolling.

In some years when BR was still nationally owned, they only managed to balance the books by selling off real estate. That was pretty short termist as they ended up having to pay rent on stuff they had previosuly owned.

Then the John Major government thought that if they sold the system, the investment backlog would become somebody else's problem. It didn't and Railtrack crashed catastrophically.

So now we have a situation whereby there is a huge backlog of investments and sadly a lot of knowledge has been lost from the system after years of not doing more than the minimum, which is why in some cases the best we can do is bring in foreign companies to show us how to do it. But that said this is a two way street as people like National Express also run trains in Germany and in fact Arriva grew so big in Germany that German Railways bought them out.

But overall, it is fair for people to make profits if the quality of service is given. We often hear about the bad stuff but in fact in many sectors the new wave of investments are beginning to bear fruit and things are actually getting better.
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  #11198  
Old 23.01.2018, 15:36
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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So now we have a situation whereby there is a huge backlog of investments and sadly a lot of knowledge has been lost from the system after years of not doing more than the minimum, which is why in some cases the best we can do is bring in foreign companies to show us how to do it. But that said this is a two way street as people like National Express also run trains in Germany and in fact Arriva grew so big in Germany that German Railways bought them out.

But overall, it is fair for people to make profits if the quality of service is given. We often hear about the bad stuff but in fact in many sectors the new wave of investments are beginning to bear fruit and things are actually getting better.
I d e o l o g y

Getting Off Topic here, but:

Company profits are not the frustration; rather the lack of accountability when things go wrong or need paying for. Customers Passengers see year on year price increases with no discernible improvements. It's Carillionesque games which eventually come back to the taxpayer. So why not bite the bullet and cut out the middleman and games they play?

In fairness, there are success stories. Due to the closed circuit layout of NW England's Merseyrail, DeutscheBahn have done an excellent job improving services and infrastructure. It's where paths cross the squabbles occur.

SBB / CFF / FFS is highly regarded despite the losses. Anyone who loves the railways would say privatisation is a poor solution.
  #11199  
Old 23.01.2018, 15:52
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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Train operators make an average profit of about 3%. Hardly rinsing the system.
Maybe, but that's after all the other costs, like licensing the name, consultancy fee's, directors wages and packages etc etc.

I had dealing with a large company that was supposedly 'not for profit' their 'costs' dwarfed every other companies bids for the deal (thankfully they didn't get it)
  #11200  
Old 23.01.2018, 15:53
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Re: The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in

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In fairness, there are success stories. Due to the closed circuit layout of NW England's Merseyrail, DeutscheBahn have done an excellent job improving services and infrastructure. It's where paths cross the squabbles occur.

SBB / CFF / FFS is highly regarded despite the losses. Anyone who loves the railways would say privatisation is a poor solution.
I don't think SBB is such a success because it's the governmnet that calls the shots. SBB is s success because people care and want good service and the government understands that. Something like 40% of track in Switzerland is not owned by SBB by the way, but by an assortment of independent companies, some of them private or a mix of private and local authorities, Gemeindes, Cantons etc. I own shares in one of them. The discussions at the AGM are facinating. They take subsidies to run their trains but need to fight hard to meet the requirements, and that's exactly what they do. The service on these lines is not in any way second rate to what SBB provides. In some cases it's actually significantly better, and operating costs are lower.

Britian's railways were in a poor state when the government ran them because nobody cared and nobody wanted to put up the money that was needed to fix them. Privatisation was window dressing but didn't address the core problem. Bringing thejm back into national ownership won't fix that either. The problem is that in Britain people don't understand that if you want a first class railway, you need to spend first class money. Ownership structures are a distraction in that discussion and identifying some profiteering entity makes for a quick scapegoat.

People need to wake up to the fact that you can't have a BMW for the price of a Lada, and that pointing out that the Lada dealership is making a profit has nothing to do with the fact that no matter how hard you prentent, you're not getting a BMW until you put more money on the table.

Either that, or just be honest and say you're quite happy to have a sh*tty railway.
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