The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	Loz1983
	More Bantz. https://twitter.com/andrealeadsom/st...16238413893632

This letter was reported to the police by Zac Goldsmith last week after one of his constituents received the same...

https://twitter.com/ZacGoldsmith/sta...41047272112128

[rainer_d]

	Quote:
	And yet, they're going to have to. Doesn't your heart just bleed for those poor bankers?

My heart primarily bleeds for the poor renters of Frankfurt, who now have even more wealthy competitors in the housing market.

The real-Estate sector, restaurants, bars and brothels will likely profit, though.

[marton]

	Quote:
	But there's no convincing data to the contrary, though, is there? There's no evidence that the UK DOESN'T need a deal. "We can grow our own food", is about as far as they've got. Dig for victory!

Lack of migrant workers left food rotting in UK fields last year, data reveals

Brexit fears and falling pound left fruit and vegetable farms short of more than 4,000 workers, with senior MPs warning of a crisis

The government, which has pledged to reduce immigration, has so far rejected calls to reinstate a seasonal agricultural workers scheme (Saws). Facing uncertainty over labour, some farmers have begun moving their production overseas.

Source

Worrying numbers, problem is everybody talks about controlling immigration to ensure only skilled workers are allowed in but there are big shortages at the lower end

[rainer_d]

	Quote:	marton
	Lack of migrant workers left food rotting in UK fields last year, data reveals Brexit fears and falling pound left fruit and vegetable farms short of more than 4,000 workers, with senior MPs warning of a crisis The government, which has pledged to reduce immigration, has so far rejected calls to reinstate a seasonal agricultural workers scheme (Saws). Facing uncertainty over labour, some farmers have begun moving their production overseas. Source Worrying numbers, problem is everybody talks about controlling immigration to ensure only skilled workers are allowed in but there are big shortages at the lower end

Picking fruit is hard work.
Pulling out weed (people love organic produce but rarely have even a glimpse of the amount of work needed to actually bring it to the table) is even harder work.

I would assume that most people would simply ruin their backs in the first weeks, especially if they have weak abs and back muscles.

Also, farmers want willing, motivated workers (well, every employer wants, eventually). They don't really want to employ people who have been summoned to the fields by some government agency.

[Belgianmum]

For any of you who are interested, the British consulate in Switzerland has organised a series of roadshows on the subject of Brexit for Brits living here.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/b...-liechtenstein

[greenmount]

	Quote:	marton
	Worrying numbers, problem is everybody talks about controlling immigration to ensure only skilled workers are allowed in but there are big shortages at the lower end

People were told that after Brexit immigration to UK will be stopped. If I was British, I'd be really pissed if even after Brexit it continued as usual.
What's so difficult to understand?

	Quote:	rainer_d
	Also, farmers want willing, motivated workers (well, every employer wants, eventually). They don't really want to employ people who have been summoned to the fields by some government agency.

Motivate them with money. It's the best motivational factor I can think of. Of course they're not motivated to work on the same salaries as desperate people from EE. Don't imagine that all those fruit pickers were always doing the same kind of work..



So, really. Brexit happened. Make the best of it.

[marton]

	Quote:	greenmount
	People were told that after Brexit immigration to UK will be stopped. If I was British, I'd be really pissed if even after Brexit it continued as usual. What's so difficult to understand? Motivate them with money. It's the best motivational factor I can think of. Of course they're not motivated to work on the same salaries as desperate people from EE. Don't imagine that all those fruit pickers were always doing the same kind of work.. So, really. Brexit happened. Make the best of it.

Big increases in farm wages will flow through to increase food prices.
Hurrah for Brexit

[greenmount]

	Quote:	marton
	Big increases in farm wages will flow through to increase food prices. Hurrah for Brexit

I suspect UK is importing the greatest deal of the food anyway?

Btw, not the increases in farm wages will do most of the harm, losing the EU subventions for agriculture will.

[Uncle Max]

	Quote:	greenmount
	People were told that after Brexit immigration to UK will be stopped. If I was British, I'd be really pissed if even after Brexit it continued as usual. What's so difficult to understand? Motivate them with money. It's the best motivational factor I can think of. Of course they're not motivated to work on the same salaries as desperate people from EE. Don't imagine that all those fruit pickers were always doing the same kind of work.. So, really. Brexit happened. Make the best of it.

You'd be pissed off because you didn't understand the importance of immigration or because you would feel duped that things were going to get better? (Which thread are we in, lol...)

Agriculture's one of the worst businesses for slavery. Spain, Italy - to a lesser extent Britain - have terrible stories of supply chain abuse, but we're addicted to cheap food. At least in the EU it's at least-worst levels. Goodness knows how post Brexit trading with less rigourous nations will effect our dependence on slavery for our cheap flowers, fruit and veg.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	greenmount
	People were told that after Brexit immigration to UK will be stopped.

No they weren't. They were told that FMOP rules would no longer apply, which only refers to immigration from EU countries. Immigration from the rest of the World, particularly Commonwealth nations, will continue as usual.

	Quote:	greenmount
	If I was British, I'd be really pissed if even after Brexit it continued as usual.

Well that's 17 million people who will be 'really pissed'.

	Quote:	greenmount
	So, really. Brexit happened. Make the best of it.

No.
When the government can't even begin to 'make the most of it', I abjectly refuse to have blind faith in any of it. After several years of intently listening to both sides of the debate, I have yet to be convinced that there is any positive outcome to be had.

[greenmount]

	Quote:	Uncle Max
	You'd be pissed off because you didn't understand the importance of immigration or because you would feel duped that things were going to get better? (Which thread are we in, lol...) Agriculture's one of the worst businesses for slavery. Spain, Italy - to a lesser extent Britain - have terrible stories of supply chain abuse, but we're addicted to cheap food. At least in the EU it's at least-worst levels. Goodness knows how post Brexit trading with less rigourous nations will effect our dependence on slavery for our cheap flowers, fruit and veg.

Agriculture in Italy and Spain is heavily sponsored by the dear EU and it developed in a certain way because they're never held responsible for anything, never checked if they respect workers' rights, never penalised - no subsidies retracted no nothing...food must be cheap at all costs, right. Less rigorous nations......I'm sure you've already dealt with them.

[Uncle Max]

	Quote:	greenmount
	Agriculture in Italy and Spain is heavily sponsored by the dear EU and it developed in a certain way because they're never held responsible for anything, never checked if they respect workers' rights, never penalised - no subsidies retracted no nothing...food must be cheap at all costs, right. Less rigorous nations......I'm sure you've already dealt with them.

The supply chains are in the hands of the Supermarkets, who know nobody cares about the suffering as long as the price is low. Never mind the environment. Dirty little secrets R us.

The moment shoppers give a damn the Supermarkets will follow.

[greenmount]

	Quote:	Uncle Max
	The moment shoppers give a damn the Supermarkets will follow.

But that is as if we'd throw the dead cat over the fence into the neighbour's yard. Or something something. lol


But seriously. When will the shoppers be ready to pay the right price? Maybe if they know that some goods are produced locally and every cent will go into paying decent salaries, which in return will improve the general situation, I don't know. It functions relatively well in Switzerland.

[Urs Max]

	Quote:	greenmount
	Agriculture in Italy and Spain is heavily sponsored by the dear EU and it developed in a certain way because they're never held responsible for anything, never checked if they respect workers' rights, never penalised - no subsidies retracted no nothing...food must be cheap at all costs, right. Less rigorous nations......I'm sure you've already dealt with them.

Big bad EU defines the standards but creating the actual laws and regulations, checks, controls and enforcement is the respective country's job.

The subsidies are the way they are because, again, the respective country (its industry) used its influence to shape them to its (its industry's) advantage.

You're barking up the wrong tree.

[lewton]

I think some clown was giving a speech last night.

[greenmount]

	Quote:	Urs Max
	Big bad EU defines the standards but creating the actual laws and regulations, checks, controls and enforcement is the respective country's job. The subsidies are the way they are because, again, the respective country (its industry) used its influence to shape them to its (its industry's) advantage. You're barking up the wrong tree.

I beg to differ. When EU is aware of certain situations, it usually imposes some penalties or at least asks for clarifications, gives warnings, sets terms e.g. a country that subsidises a certain industry and does not align its energy prices to the EU average is forced to give up this policy, even though they might do it so with their own natural resources - which again, should be equally open to be used by all EU members. They are very quick to do that. Anyway.
They do have the necessary instruments and mechanisms to impose EU's rules. If we would take these cases to court, we would be surprised at how many - not only local, but also European regulations are not respected.
I think you conveniently choose to deny the effects of the long-established preferences within C.A.P....among others. The fact that EU's inadequacies will be discussed more and more, and some pressures will be made, shouldn't irritate anyone. Criticism is good. Criticising EU does not mean one is pro-Russia or pro-USA. It should have been done way earlier. Brexit didn't happen only because too much immigration from the poorer areas. And there will be other -exits if things stay the way they are.
Besides, I think that the quality of food obtained in such places is not even what many Europeans would like to have on their table - organic, grown with minimal impact on environment. EU should stimulate more these projects and stop subsidising the insane financial grow of dubious, Mafia run Italian plantations. It is a well known fact, still people deny it. Oh, well.
http://business.financialpost.com/ne...-food-industry

[Urs Max]

	Quote:	greenmount
	I beg to differ. When EU is aware of certain situations, it usually imposes some penalties or at least asks for clarifications, gives warnings, sets terms e.g. a country that subsidises a certain industry and does not align its energy prices to the EU average is forced to give up this policy, even though they might do it so with their own natural resources - which again, should be equally open to be used by all EU members. They are very quick to do that. Anyway.

So you agree.

As for the unquoted part, can I ask you to define the acronym. Generally speaking, I don't think anybody says the EU is perfect, that's a rather ridiculous assumption, as is the insinuation that I see criticism as something bad.

[greenmount]

	Quote:	Urs Max
	So you agree. .

:-)
I agree with the affirmation made numerous times on this thread, and related others, that Brexit isn't such a bad thing after all. I don't pretend to know all the details and nuances of British politics but I know for sure you can't impose "Europenism" by force. I don't care about UK tbh, but I do hope that once the Brexit is officially done, people will go back to normal and run their country as they see fit, and focus on those problems they felt they can't tackle because of the EU. It can be a successful story or not. Time to find out the truth.

[Blueangel]

	Quote:	greenmount
	I agree with the affirmation made numerous times on this thread, and related others, that Brexit isn't such a bad thing after all. I don't pretend to know all the details and nuances of British politics...

Obviously.

	Quote:	greenmount
	I don't care about UK tbh...

Blindingly obvious.

	Quote:	greenmount
	I don't care about UK tbh, but I do hope that once the Brexit is officially done, people will go back to normal and run their country as they see fit, and focus on those problems they felt they can't tackle because of the EU. It can be a successful story or not. Time to find out the truth.

They won't. And as someone who voted for Brexit (and would vote for Brexit again should the question be put to the people again), I find that profoundly disappointing.

As I've said before, the Tories offered the demos a choice of chips or rice, knowing full well that nobody had bought any potatoes. The sheer incompetence and irresponsibility of this simple act is not far from treasonous.

This may well be the United Kingdom's only opportunity to leave the vile, corrupt organisation that is the European Union, and so far the signs are not looking good. I would not be at all surprised to see Brexit cancelled and the United Kingdom become a full member of the EU with the Euro as our currency and battalions of the European Army stationed on our shores, all because Cameron and his cronies couldn't be arsed to do the groundwork for a proper departure. The fact that membership of the European Economic Community and later the European Union was a Tory project all along might not be an entirely irrelevant point, either.

They simply never wanted it, didn't prepare for it, offered it to us anyway, and now have no way of delivering it.

Bastards, the lot of them.