The Brexit referendum thread: potential consequences for GB, EU and the Brits in CH

	Quote:	Blueangel
	Personally, I know over 20 ppl affected by this, and I'm not one of the millions who has frequently worked in Europe over the years. I reckon the actual number is a lot higher than that, and I'm personally affected.

You're married to a Greek so you're not.

[Blueangel]

I'm not married and between us, we have homes in 3 countries. It appears that I know quite a few people in our situation.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	Blueangel
	I'm not married and between us, we have homes in 3 countries. It appears that I know quite a few people in our situation.

People can always go on holiday & spend time between homes, my wife & I had 3 homes until last week when she sold her UK house, I am convinced we will be able to buy it back at least £300,000 cheaper within 5 years, however with 3 acres & stables it was no longer suitable as we need something more lock up & go. Hotels seem remarkable value relative to home ownership if your not their very often.

[Reb77Br]

The Sun: Nigel Farage to make his 32nd appearance on Question Time (YouTube: Question Time, 1.3.2018)

Meanwhile Dr Mike Galsworthy of Scientists for EU (mission, funding, YouTube channel) has made zero appearances on Question Time.

[Uncle Max]

Rees-Mogg's father was a great proponent of our being in the fourth stage of human society, liberating the 0.01% - who would build independent sea steads away from the Serfs and Zombies - as never before. Silicon Valley is apparently buying up large estates in New Zealand, clustering their paranoia.

Rees-Mogg and Davidson predicted that globalisation and the internet will make the nation state obsolete. As the rich use crypto currencies and offshore banks to avoid paying their taxes, health and education systems will become unsustainable, and police and soldiers will go unpaid. Insurrections and wars will follow. But out of the rubble of the old West a new civilisation will emerge, where entrepreneur-kings “operate like the gods of myth’” watched in awe by the ordinary mortals they employ.
- Source

It must be exhausting. They're doing all this in plain sight.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	Uncle Max
	Rees-Mogg's father was a great proponent of our being in the fourth stage of human society, liberating the 0.01% - who would build independent sea steads away from the Serfs and Zombies - as never before. Silicon Valley is apparently buying up large estates in New Zealand, clustering their paranoia. Rees-Mogg and Davidson predicted that globalisation and the internet will make the nation state obsolete. As the rich use crypto currencies and offshore banks to avoid paying their taxes, health and education systems will become unsustainable, and police and soldiers will go unpaid. Insurrections and wars will follow. But out of the rubble of the old West a new civilisation will emerge, where entrepreneur-kings “operate like the gods of myth’” watched in awe by the ordinary mortals they employ. - Source It must be exhausting. They're doing all this in plain sight.

Avoiding taxes is based on residency, Monaco 0%, Isle of Man 20% max £150k per tax payer, UK for non British. Malta for non Maltese, Ireland for non Irish, Switzerland for non Swiss. You don't need to do anything clever just not live in a country that demands more than you want to pay.

It's very easy you live in a huge tax haven but really don't get it. Foreign mega rich choose CH & London as they have a lower tax bill than living in the Isle of Man, Jersey or Guernsey.

[Uncle Max]

You should charge for your advice, FMF The tax issue isn't the issue: it's the motivation behind their push for Brexit which alarms.

They tell us it's for the sake of Britain, and people are cottoning on it's not the whole truth.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	Uncle Max
	You should charge for your advice, FMF The tax issue isn't the issue: it's the motivation behind their push for Brexit which alarms. They tell us it's for the sake of Britain, and people are cottoning on it's not the whole truth.

What motivation are you talking about? being able to trade with who we want at the best rates, rather than paying subsidise to inefficient French farmers is enough for me.

I have never received state subsidies for any work I did, (other than 4 days for Swiss TV in 20 years, only company ever that did not pay my Pillar 2 pension contribution for a short contract. I Think BILLAG is absurd however my entire Swiss film industry contacts are up in Arms as 50% of their work is BILLAG subsidised. Being a foreigner I was never in line for those cushy jobs, same with the EU, many people make a huge amount of money due to subsidies. I am a capitalist & do not believe in subsidies, a business is either viable or it's not.

[Uncle Max]

If a dystopian ideology held by the elite behind Brexit is real, it would be interesting to call those holding such views to account. Spoiler: it'd be a waste of time, not because such deceptions are unlikely, rather they don't need to justify their views as long as French farming subsidies are enough to get the job done.

You're the one discussing tax breaks. I'm pointing out there are perhaps ulterior motives behind the demands of the Brexit flag bearers, viz. Mr Rees-Mogg Jnr.

[Uncle Max]

Council leaders across UK believe Brexit will hurt local economies

"A nationwide survey of all council leaders and local authority chief executives in county, district, unitary and metropolitan and London borough councils found 61% believed Brexit would have a negative or very negative impact on their regions.

Councils have suffered cuts to their budgets in excess of 40% since the Tories launched their austerity programme in 2010, leading to savage reductions to a range of services from social care, to libraries and leisure facilities."

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	Uncle Max
	Council leaders across UK believe Brexit will hurt local economies "A nationwide survey of all council leaders and local authority chief executives in county, district, unitary and metropolitan and London borough councils found 61% believed Brexit would have a negative or very negative impact on their regions. Councils have suffered cuts to their budgets in excess of 40% since the Tories launched their austerity programme in 2010, leading to savage reductions to a range of services from social care, to libraries and leisure facilities."

Council leaders are government employees, pretty low level ones at that, they could not run a business if they tried. I don't see how there advise is suddenly so valuable, the electorate made a decision fair & square, the UK is leaving the EU even if you don't like it.

TBH there has been ZERO austerity at all, budgets are bigger & spending is out of control, this needs to be addressed, Mrs Thatcher would not hesitate every leader since has been a wet fish with the possible exception of Tony Blair, who is someone I could have voted for at his second term in office if I had been allowed to vote at the time.

To paraphrase Mrs T, ' The problem with socialists is eventually they run out of other peoples's money ', this happened under Gordon Brown & the country has never recovered. Spending money that needs to be repaid by our children & grandchildren is just not fair.

[StirB]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	TBH there has been ZERO austerity at all

...and at a stroke, all credibility fled for greener pastures...

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	StirB
	...and at a stroke, all credibility fled for greener pastures...

It obviously had a different meaning in the 1940's & 1950's in the UK, food rationing only ended in 1955. Looking back at the archives I don't see huge no of obese people claiming they cant afford to eat.

I believe it was the 2nd richest labour MP (left office 3 may 17) great grandfather who was a Scottish property multi millionaires lived on 10 shillings a week to prove that that was an adequate level of social security, oh boy how our idea of austerity has changed in under 100 years.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	... the electorate made a decision fair & square, the UK is leaving the EU even if you don't like it.

But that is factually incorrect! The British electorate expressed an opinion in a non binding referendum, but when asked to give a mandate to one of the two versions of BREXIT on offer at the GE they failed to do so. So while we can say the people support some kind of break we don’t know what that means. But there is a fair chance it is not in line with what the DUP wants! The DUP have only one objective to frustrate the GFA and they will do what ever it takes to achieve that in the coming months.

The DUP is the one player in this little farce that can’t loose! They are Irish citizens by right and as such will continue to enjoy the benefits of EU citizenship no matter how the negotiations go. And while they do a lot of shouting about the ‘Irish Free State’ their MPs have no qualms about signing Irish government documents to enable their constituents obtain Irish passports. Should things go completely pear shaped they can in the worse case fall back on the EU guarantee to admit NI to the EU as part of some form of a United or Federated Ireland. So they can be very confident in going after their objective.

I expect the DUP will in the end bring down the government, to be following be a bitter and devise GE fought on the basis of whatever agreement is on the table at that stage and the outcome is anyone’s guess.

[Uncle Max]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	...being able to trade with who we want at the best rates, rather than paying subsidise to inefficient French farmers is enough for me...

The potential new market opportunities - which come at great cost - are calculated to be many levels lower than the current opportunities. It's like losing a tenner and finding 50p.

Finding 50p is a win, true. The game's not worth the candle so it does lead one to speculate as to the motivation behind the Brexit champions, other than people making an uninformed protest vote.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	Council leaders are government employees, pretty low level ones at that, they could not run a business if they tried. I don't see how there advise is suddenly so valuable, the electorate made a decision fair & square, the UK is leaving the EU even if you don't like it. TBH there has been ZERO austerity at all, budgets are bigger & spending is out of control, this needs to be addressed, Mrs Thatcher would not hesitate every leader since has been a wet fish with the possible exception of Tony Blair, who is someone I could have voted for at his second term in office if I had been allowed to vote at the time. To paraphrase Mrs T, ' The problem with socialists is eventually they run out of other peoples's money ', this happened under Gordon Brown & the country has never recovered. Spending money that needs to be repaid by our children & grandchildren is just not fair.

Council leaders are getting the attention now because they're being listened to; the whole 'Project Fear' hysteria turned out to be realistic. But we've had enough of experts...




I'm at a loss to recall what advantages there'll be to a Brave New World of trade with Mesopotamia and Vanuatu New Hebridees.

As for your comment on Austerity, you've been away too long.

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	It obviously had a different meaning in the 1940's & 1950's in the UK, food rationing only ended in 1955. Looking back at the archives I don't see huge no of obese people claiming they cant afford to eat. I believe it was the 2nd richest labour MP (left office 3 may 17) great grandfather who was a Scottish property multi millionaires lived on 10 shillings a week to prove that that was an adequate level of social security, oh boy how our idea of austerity has changed in under 100 years.

20% of the population lives in poverty, but we've had this ridiculous discussion before. Something to do with AIDS orphans in Bangladesh, IIRC.

[marton]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	What motivation are you talking about? being able to trade with who we want at the best rates, rather than paying subsidise to inefficient French farmers is enough for me. I have never received state subsidies for any work I did, (other than 4 days for Swiss TV in 20 years, only company ever that did not pay my Pillar 2 pension contribution for a short contract. I Think BILLAG is absurd however my entire Swiss film industry contacts are up in Arms as 50% of their work is BILLAG subsidised. Being a foreigner I was never in line for those cushy jobs, same with the EU, many people make a huge amount of money due to subsidies. I am a capitalist & do not believe in subsidies, a business is either viable or it's not.

"being able to trade with who we want at the best rates" Sounds great but so far the little we know about such trade negotiations indicates that the rates are looking poor, I would be happy to be proved wrong. "proven" in the sense of proof not opinion

An example here of possible issues.

[Jim2007]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	What motivation are you talking about? being able to trade with who we want at the best rates...

Two very simple questions that this kind of BS ignores:

- Why would any country disadvantage themselves in a trade agreement for the benefit of the UK, especially given that everyone knows they desperately need a deal.

- How exactly would you manage to get past WTO rules without someone objecting to you getting all theses great deals???

And this stage it is very clear that there is going to be a very big struggle to gain WTO access as most countries do not want to give up there current trade schedules with the EU for a lesser share in order to gain schedules. And by the same token the EU wants to reduce it's schedules to take account of BREXIT.

[fatmanfilms]

	Quote:	Jim2007
	Two very simple questions that this kind of BS ignores: - Why would any country disadvantage themselves in a trade agreement for the benefit of the UK, especially given that everyone knows they desperately need a deal. - How exactly would you manage to get past WTO rules without someone objecting to you getting all theses great deals??? And this stage it is very clear that there is going to be a very big struggle to gain WTO access as most countries do not want to give up there current trade schedules with the EU for a lesser share in order to gain schedules. And by the same token the EU wants to reduce it's schedules to take account of BREXIT.

I don't accept the UK needs a deal at all, thats FUD. We were told what a disaster it would be not to join the EURO, same story repeated 25 years later.

WTO rules are fine, with a depreciated currency UK will benefit, there really is no problem, Hard BREXIT all the way please.

[Uncle Max]

	Quote:	fatmanfilms
	... UK will benefit, there really is no problem, Hard BREXIT all the way please.

The future is of less concern to those facing imminent catastrophe in the present. Society has to cope with the present; and society is getting shafted before Brexit has even begun.

Speculators may have a fine time, they often do. Until they get shot

Loads of information on Austerity and the wider implications of poverty in the UK from the Joseph Rowntree Foundation here.

[Odile]

Ah well Rees Mogg and BoJo suddenly realise they are in a bit of a pickle, and changing their tactics ?!? :

https://infacts.org/rees-mogg-telegr...jo-loses-mojo/